Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
--Apple-Mail-2--54835864
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed
I don't think you get it, avgas. You are trying to compare commercial=20
operations with huge budgets to people for whom diving is a hobby, a=20
weekend joyride. If you run a local dive boat like a commercial diving=20=
operation how many divers would you get willing to cough up $500 each=20
for a day trip? Answer is not enough to sustain the dive boat operation.
So, what you propose is to either pay commercial rates for a hobby or=20
quit the sport. Well, divers have voted, and they have voted for=20
shoestring operations which run basically to ensure that the diveshop=20
can sell gear and training at a profit. This is reality. You see this in=20=
other sports, skydiving clubs with flying deathtraps to take them up for=20=
a jump, expedition divers riding on local deathtrap jeepnies to take=20
them to the cave holes. Mountain climbers using wheezing ex-soviet=20
military helicopters to take them up to base camp. Does not make sense=20=
but people are repeatedly willing to take the risk.
So, all you can do is make the best of the situation. Bring along your=20=
own crew and support, make sure the boat has what you need and make sure=20=
it works. You can always call the dive if the risks look too great. I=20
agree that there are many clueless morons who throw their lives on the=20=
mercy of an unknown captain and crew. I used to be one of them before I=20=
started technical diving. At that point you are lucky to hook up with=20
someone like JT or Dave who knows what the deal is and does most of this=20=
stuff for you as you learn.
Jim
On Thursday, July 25, 2002, at 08:14 PM, HLAviation@ao*.co* wrote:
>
>
> My philosophy is that your it is *your ass* and nobody elses. Nobody
> else gives a shit about *your ass* because they are too worried about
> *their ass*.=A0 And if you want to bring *your ass* out of the water =
each
> and every time it is up to *your ass* to cover all bases or decide
> whether or not to toss the dice.
>
>
>
> It definitely is your ass, and you should do everything possible to=20
> secure your ass.=A0 When things go wrong however, it's nice to be=20
> involved with a proffessional operation that cares if you live or die,=20=
> and do whatever possible to ensure you live.
>
> It must be nice in the commercial world where you can hop on=A0 any =
work
> boat and know, without even checking, that the captain has the eyes of
> an eagle, his crew is perfect, the chase boat will deploy and start =
with
> the touch of a button. Yeah, right.
>
>
>
> My rescue boat is launched at least weekly in a drill, and yes, it=20
> starts at the touch of a button every time.
>
> But *my ass* does not give a shit about the son of a bitch who did not
> save *my ass*=A0 is now in a CG hearing when *my ass* is attached to a
> cold, dead corpse. Won't mean a fucking thing to me.
>
>
>
> You aren't getting it are you?=A0 The guy who is striving to avoid the =
CG=20
> hearing, is the same guy who CARES if YOU live or die and maintains=20
> dilligence to assure you don't die drifting across the ocean.=A0 BTW,=20=
> since it IS your ass, and you don't give a shit whether someone is=20
> watching out for you or not, you do carry your own 406 EPIRB with you=20=
> on dives right?=A0 I mean, iff you get blown off the wreck in a Gulf=20=
> Stream current with a couple hours of deco to do and no one is looking=20=
> out for your liftbag, you'll be lost at sea without one.
>
> =46rom what I can tell, most people who dive roll the dice, over and =
over
> and over. You would not believe what divers dive off of. Basically
> anything that can get you to the dive site and that will still be
> floating when you come up from deco pretty much covers the
> qualifications. Anything after that is a bonus.
>
>
>
> Wow, hate to say it, but you're morons then.
>
>
> Fuck the captain. All dive boat captains are is a bunch of fucking bus
> drivers, they've all said that over and over on these lists. It's been
> proven out in the courts. You need to have organic support in your =
dive
> team or you are a fool or a gambler. It is up to *your ass* to check =
the
> chase boat, make sure it's deployed and will start when you need it. =
It
> is up to *your ass* to have someone you know and trust take the head
> counts, mark the entry time, know what to do in an emergency (other =
than
> run around screaming hysterically) and coordinate the surface support.
> Or it is up to *your ass* to roll the dice. You may win, you may =
loose.
>
>
>
> You all need to demand better service, vote with your wallets.=A0 If I=20=
> walked on a boat run the way y'all accept, I'd walk back off, I don't=20=
> need to dive that bad that I'd roll dice with odds up ability to =
lose.=A0=20
> Y'all pay a bunch of money for these dives, you aren't being paid to =
do=20
> them (actually if you were being paid, the crappy conditions which you=20=
> take for granted, would not be tolerated), you should insist on only=20=
> the top quality service, and equipment on par with your own personal=20=
> equipment.
>
>
> Rule book thumpers like you are hilarious. USCG rules In the context =
of
> dive boats, I'm rolling on the floor.=A0 Let's deal with the real =
world,
> shall we?
>
> =A0=A0=A0 Jim
>
>
>
> The rules as you put them, are all written in blood as it's said.=A0 =
An=20
> operation that can't abide by those rules has no right to be =
operating,=20
> and I wouldn't step foot on it, who the hell knows what else is going=20=
> wrong. They don't make rules without people dying over an issue.=A0 =
Some=20
> of us run a 30' boat as proffessionaly as a 300' boat, my standards of=20=
> safety don't change.=A0 That you'll accept less than a completely=20
> proffessional operation boggles my mind.=A0 The bus ride alone holds=20=
> hazards.
>
>
>
>
>
--Apple-Mail-2--54835864
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/enriched;
charset=ISO-8859-1
I don't think you get it, avgas. You are trying to compare commercial
operations with huge budgets to people for whom diving is a hobby, a
weekend joyride. If you run a local dive boat like a commercial diving
operation how many divers would you get willing to cough up $500 each
for a day trip? Answer is not enough to sustain the dive boat
operation.
So, what you propose is to either pay commercial rates for a hobby or
quit the sport. Well, divers have voted, and they have voted for
shoestring operations which run basically to ensure that the diveshop
can sell gear and training at a profit. This is reality. You see this
in other sports, skydiving clubs with flying deathtraps to take them
up for a jump, expedition divers riding on local deathtrap jeepnies to
take them to the cave holes. Mountain climbers using wheezing
ex-soviet military helicopters to take them up to base camp. Does not
make sense but people are repeatedly willing to take the risk.
So, all you can do is make the best of the situation. Bring along your
own crew and support, make sure the boat has what you need and make
sure it works. You can always call the dive if the risks look too
great. I agree that there are many clueless morons who throw their
lives on the mercy of an unknown captain and crew. I used to be one of
them before I started technical diving. At that point you are lucky to
hook up with someone like JT or Dave who knows what the deal is and
does most of this stuff for you as you learn.
Jim
On Thursday, July 25, 2002, at 08:14 PM, HLAviation@ao*.co* wrote:
<excerpt>
My philosophy is that your it is *your ass* and nobody elses. Nobody
else gives a shit about *your ass* because they are too worried about
*their ass*.=A0 And if you want to bring *your ass* out of the water =
each
and every time it is up to *your ass* to cover all bases or decide
whether or not to toss the dice.
=
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,0000</
param><small=
er>It
definitely is your ass, and you should do everything possible to
secure your ass.=A0 When things go wrong however, it's nice to be
involved with a proffessional operation that cares if you live or die,
and do whatever possible to ensure you live.
It must be nice in the commercial world where you can hop on=A0 any work
boat and know, without even checking, that the captain has the eyes of
an eagle, his crew is perfect, the chase boat will deploy and start
with
the touch of a button. Yeah, right.
My rescue boat is launched at least weekly in a drill, and yes, it
starts at the touch of a button every time.
But *my ass* does not give a shit about the son of a bitch who did not
save *my ass*=A0 is now in a CG hearing when *my ass* is attached to a
cold, dead corpse. Won't mean a fucking thing to me.
You aren't getting it are you?=A0 The guy who is striving to avoid the
CG hearing, is the same guy who CARES if YOU live or die and maintains
dilligence to assure you don't die drifting across the ocean.=A0 BTW,
since it IS your ass, and you don't give a shit whether someone is
watching out for you or not, you do carry your own 406 EPIRB with you
on dives right?=A0 I mean, iff you get blown off the wreck in a Gulf
Stream current with a couple hours of deco to do and no one is looking
out for your liftbag, you'll be lost at sea without one.
=46rom what I can tell, most people who dive roll the dice, over and =
over
and over. You would not believe what divers dive off of. Basically
anything that can get you to the dive site and that will still be
floating when you come up from deco pretty much covers the
qualifications. Anything after that is a bonus.
Wow, hate to say it, but you're morons then.
Fuck the captain. All dive boat captains are is a bunch of fucking bus
drivers, they've all said that over and over on these lists. It's been
proven out in the courts. You need to have organic support in your dive
team or you are a fool or a gambler. It is up to *your ass* to check
the
chase boat, make sure it's deployed and will start when you need it. It
is up to *your ass* to have someone you know and trust take the head
counts, mark the entry time, know what to do in an emergency (other
than
run around screaming hysterically) and coordinate the surface support.
Or it is up to *your ass* to roll the dice. You may win, you may loose.
You all need to demand better service, vote with your wallets.=A0 If I
walked on a boat run the way y'all accept, I'd walk back off, I don't
need to dive that bad that I'd roll dice with odds up ability to
lose.=A0 Y'all pay a bunch of money for these dives, you aren't being
paid to do them (actually if you were being paid, the crappy
conditions which you take for granted, would not be tolerated), you
should insist on only the top quality service, and equipment on par
with your own personal equipment.
Rule book thumpers like you are hilarious. USCG rules In the context of
dive boats, I'm rolling on the floor.=A0 Let's deal with the real world,
shall we?
=A0=A0=A0 Jim
The rules as you put them, are all written in blood as it's said.=A0 An
operation that can't abide by those rules has no right to be
operating, and I wouldn't step foot on it, who the hell knows what
else is going wrong. They don't make rules without people dying over
an issue.=A0 Some of us run a 30' boat as proffessionaly as a 300' boat,
my standards of safety don't change.=A0 That you'll accept less than a
completely proffessional operation boggles my mind.=A0 The bus ride
alone holds hazards.
</smaller></color></fontfamily></excerpt>=
--Apple-Mail-2--54835864--
--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
Navigate by Author:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Subject Search Index]
[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]
[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]