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Gi Day John. Down under a rock in a Cave sounds like a good Idea. Now you still don't get it and are starting to talk bull shit so I will leave it at that with you. Hoo Roo Johnny Mack Down Under. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Walker <techdive@ea*.ne*> To: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 3:35 AM Subject: Re: Weights > Hey John "Down Under a Rock", > > Talking about task loading, why would you have to take your gear off if > you want to keep task loading to a minimum. I think your dreaming this > stuff up. Weights around your waist pull down as the rest of your gear > lifts up. This can equals to back fatigue. You would also have a belt > under a belt and the chance of uncliping the weights rather than the harness > are great. > I relize you will not be negitive or neutral in your suit but I am able > to minimize the bouyancy quit well in my suit. Give Billy Williams a call, > maybe he can help you out with this. Although he may ask you to loose a > couple of kilo's around you waist I'm sure he can give you some valuable > tips. > > who raa > John Walker > over you > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > To: John Walker <techdive@ea*.ne*> > Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 11:07 PM > Subject: Fw: Weights > > > > > > "Gi Day" John > > > > You don't bloody get it do you dick brain. Why task load a situation just > > because you didn't bother to wear a couple of kilos around "your fat > gut". > > Any body can do what you said in a normal situation but WHEN the shit > hits > > the fan and STRESS takes over wouldn't it be better to have control over > > your buoyancy and attend to the problem and not have to worry about the > > buoyancy bit. > > FAT must be a new way of diving as in DIR WIR and of course we now have > KIS > > "keep it simple". > > Apart from that I don't care how fat or skinny you are there is no way > you > > are negative or even neutral in any kind of suit even with all the air > and > > methane extracted. > > > > Hoo Roo > > Johnny Mack > > Down Under. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: John Walker <techdive@ea*.ne*> > > > To: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 4:59 PM > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > John, it sounds as if you either need to loose a few pounds of FAT > or > > > > quit putting so much gas in your suit. When you describe removing > your > > > > equipment underwater, is it nessesary to let go of it? I have removed > > my > > > > equipment underwater many times and even in a drysuit if you were to > > hang > > > > onto the equipment (your gas supply) the bouyancy thing is a minor > > issue. > > > > Letting go of your gas supply doesn't make any sense to me although I > > have > > > > switched from scuba to abilical in order to penetrate areas of wrecks > > > > without a hitch. > > > > > > > > JW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > > > To: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*> > > > > Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 7:09 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Gi Day" again Steve. > > > > > > > > > > I think you understand now where I am coming from with weighting. > > > > > > > > > > I guess there are a number of different scenarios that could mean > > having > > > > to > > > > > get out of your gear to rectify a problem, and listing them would > keep > > > > this > > > > > thread going forever. > > > > > > > > > > Getting caught in a restriction is unlikely to be one of them as you > > > > > "should" get out of your gear to negotiate the restriction if it is > > that > > > > > small. Then you won't get trapped. Not only you won't get trapped > you > > > will > > > > > be in control of the situation. You will have even better control if > > you > > > > are > > > > > weighted correctly. > > > > > > > > > > Hoo Roo > > > > > Johnny Mack > > > > > Down Under. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*> > > > > > To: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > > > > Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 1:30 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi John, > > > > > > > > > > > > I honestly can't think of a situation that would require you to > take > > > off > > > > > all > > > > > > your gear underwater besides getting stuck in a restriction so > small > > > > that > > > > > > you shouldn't have been diving it anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that the chances of getting into a situation needing full > > gear > > > > > > removal is so slight that it doesn't warrant a weight belt. > > > > > > > > > > > > Weight belts do have their place in diving, I still use mine quite > > > > > > frequently depending on the setup I'm using, I just never dive it > > with > > > > > more > > > > > > than 6 lbs now. Even getting rid of those 6 lbs makes a huge > > > difference > > > > > for > > > > > > comfort. > > > > > > > > > > > > So John, what likely scenarios require you to take all your gear > > off? > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > > > > > To: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*> > > > > > > Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 5:05 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Gi Day" Steve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve you said it in your last comment "WEAR A BALANCED RIG". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If and WHEN the shit hits the fan and the diver has no choice > but > > to > > > > get > > > > > > out > > > > > > > of his gear. > > > > > > > If the diver independent of his rig is balanced, the task > loading > > in > > > a > > > > > > > highly stressed situation will be significantly reduced. > > > > > > > If you need to add weight to your rig to achieve this balance > then > > > do > > > > > so, > > > > > > a > > > > > > > P/V weight in this case would be practical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The guys that don't take their gear off under water if its the > > only > > > > way > > > > > to > > > > > > > fix the problem DIE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also hate wearing a weight belt, however it doesn't have to be > > too > > > > > heavy > > > > > > > as it is only adjusting the buoyancy of the diver not the Diver > > and > > > > the > > > > > > rig. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hoo Roo > > > > > > > Johnny Mack > > > > > > > Down Under. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*> > > > > > > > To: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>; Techdiver Mailing > > List > > > > > > > <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 11:48 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since when does a P/V weight constitute weights "all over the > > > place > > > > > "??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is a weight belt more effective? Why are you taking your > > gear > > > > off > > > > > > > > underwater? > > > > > > > > Think about this... Pressed Steel 104s + Drysuit + SS > backplate > > = > > > no > > > > > > > > additional weight! > > > > > > > > What do those guys do when they take off their gear > underwater? > > > > They > > > > > > > don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Comfort-wise, I hate weight belts with a passion. Getting rid > > of > > > it > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > provide more comfort, less wear on your exposure suit, and > > better > > > > > > airflow > > > > > > > > through your drysuit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Getting up off the bottom is easy... dive a balanced rig. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > > > > > > > To: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 7:30 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read a lot of crap in the many posts that have been > > presented > > > > over > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > last few days regarding weighting. Most of the suggestions > > have > > > > been > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > right bloody dangerous, stupid, and idiotic. Hey guys what > > > > happened > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > keeping it simple. We should weight ourselves with out tanks > > > > harness > > > > > > etc > > > > > > > > > attached, just negative. if we are still negative with the > > tanks > > > > and > > > > > > > > harness > > > > > > > > > etc on then we are correctly weighted. Using the traditional > > > > weight > > > > > > belt > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > the most effective way of doing this. Have a bloody good > think > > > > about > > > > > > why > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > should be weighted this way before you make any comments. > The > > > guys > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > to wear tank weights etc all over the place have a think > about > > > > > > buoyancy > > > > > > > > > control if you have to take your gear off in water at depth. > > If > > > > and > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > shit hits the fan and you have to do this with weights all > > over > > > > your > > > > > > > gear > > > > > > > > > "good luck". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hoo Roo > > > > > > > > > Johnny Mack > > > > > > > > > Down Under > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: John Walker <techdive@ea*.ne*> > > > > > > > > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:11 AM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hell Cobber they give me a sore back. I'd bet Mike > Black > > > > (you > > > > > > > know, > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > guy that doesn't dive) would consider this a Type 2 DCS > hit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. John Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ma*.ci*.co*> > > > > > > > > > > To: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*>; Paul Braunbehrens > > > > > > > > > > <Bakalite@ba*.co*> > > > > > > > > > > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 9:02 AM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Weight belt for wetsuits. Weight belt fucks up the > airflow > > > in > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > drysuit > > > > > > > > > > > and is a failure point. I hate weight belts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > Learn About Trimix at > http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*> > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:24:40 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Paul Braunbehrens <Bakalite@ba*.co*> > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont mean to flame Paul personally but I have to ask > > > some > > > > > > simple > > > > > > > > > > questions > > > > > > > > > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is the weight belt not ideal? its cheap, easy to > > > learn, > > > > > and > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > > > > everywhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The belt gives you a built in failure indicator< if > you > > > are > > > > > > paying > > > > > > > > > > attnetion > > > > > > > > > > > > you can feel it slip, and thats easy to correct on > your > > > own> > > > > > and > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > > under you crotch stap has a built in anti ditch > safety. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what is the facination with non ditchable weight? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > especially on a rig that is limited to no stop diving > by > > > > > > > > definition?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can understand its significance on a deco dive, but > > you > > > > all > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > realize > > > > > > > > > > > > that if your worst fears come true and you undergo a > > > buoyant > > > > > > > ascent > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > are merely performing skills practice?? That evey > agency > > > has > > > > > > blow > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > go > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > its last resort for ndl diving? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have any of you removed your weights during a dive? > what > > > was > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > result? > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > had my belt off three times in front of the class i > was > > > > > helping > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > tonite, > > > > > > > > > > > > no problem with an al 80 with an al plate and a 1/4 > suit > > > in > > > > > 12 > > > > > > ft > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > water, > > > > > > > > > > > > i had plenty of time to dump the bc and remain with my > > > > weight > > > > > > belt > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > a little effort. Are we all just not paying attention? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worried about buckle failure? wear two. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are not even going to get into the pony bottle, but > > fyi > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > > > > > > of hogarthian means ultra minimal as in no reserve > gas, > > > even > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > overhead. > > > > > > > > > > > > and of course the bottle is unnecessary for anything, > > you > > > > can > > > > > > > either > > > > > > > > > > blow > > > > > > > > > > > > and go or you cant and if you cant you need a real > > > redundant > > > > > > > system, > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > 13 > > > > > > > > > > > > freaking cu ft. This w/e i was forced to dive off the > > bow > > > > b/c > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > customers > > > > > > > > > > > > used up all the rack space with their pony bottles > > filled > > > > with > > > > > > > > nitrox > > > > > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > > > > > hot for the bottom< typical, they have all been hosed > > and > > > > > regard > > > > > > > dir > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > internet bs>and then i had to endure the shop owners > > > > bitching > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > doubles being too much gear for the dives< which they > > > were, > > > > > but > > > > > > i > > > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > > > them empty and gas costs money so i aint freaking > > wasting > > > > > it>so > > > > > > i > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > ready > > > > > > > > > > > > for all comers on this pony bullshit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont need a pony bottle unless you are solo diving > > > > without > > > > > a > > > > > > > > plan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think it through people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Al Marvelli > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS if those two quarry guys dont send me snail > addresses > > > ill > > > > > > never > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > able > > > > > > > > > > > > to mail them schedules and since i lost my inbox i > dont > > > > > > havetheir > > > > > > > e > > > > > > > > > > > > addresses, so get back to me fellas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Braunbehrens wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> OK, I went through tons of archives last night, > trying > > to > > > > get > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > >> bottom of this. First, let me tell you my setup. > I'm > > > > diving > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > >> backplate and wings, with a drysuit, and (for now) a > > > single > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > >> a pony bottle. Leaving enough air in my suit so I > can > > > > still > > > > > > move > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > >> do a safety stop at the end of a dive, I need 17 > pounds > > > on > > > > my > > > > > > > belt > > > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > > > >> dive in cold water). > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Right now this weight is on my weight belt, which is > ok > > > but > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > ideal. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Perusing the archives, it seems the consensus is to > > make > > > a > > > > V > > > > > > > weight > > > > > > > > > > > >> for at least some of this. Let's say it will weigh > > about > > > 9 > > > > > > > Pounds. > > > > > > > > > > > >> This still leaves 8 pounds. I could then either > leave > > > that > > > > > on > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > >> weight belt, or I could put it in the Halcyon weight > > > > pouches. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > >> assume that when I go to doubles I won't need most of > > it > > > > > > anymore? > > > > > > > > > > > >> Also, DiveRite sells a "trim weight" that will fit > > > between > > > > > the > > > > > > > > bolts > > > > > > > > > > > >> on the backplate. I was thinking of this as an > option. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Also, I read a lot of posts saying the canister light > > is > > > 6 > > > > > > pounds > > > > > > > > > > > >> negative (or thereabouts). Mine is 1.5 pounds > > negative, > > > > > which > > > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > > > > >> I have to account for that weight somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> One post I read which made a lot of sense, said that > > you > > > > > should > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > >> about 5 or 6 pounds of ditchable weight (if any). > When > > > you > > > > > > ditch > > > > > > > > > > > >> your weight you don't want to become so positive as > to > > > end > > > > up > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > >> lunar orbit. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> I would like to get as close to hogarthian as > possible > > > > before > > > > > > > > moving > > > > > > > > > > > >> to doubles, so any help is appreciated. I'm even > > moving > > > my > > > > > > > > canister > > > > > > > > > > > >> back on my harness (I had it upside down and attached > > to > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > >> backplate, but I find that it has a tendency to sit > on > > > the > > > > > > wiring > > > > > > > > > > > >> connection...not good). > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > > > >> Paul Braunbehrens mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co* > > > > > > > > > > > >> http://www.daw-mac.com Mailing list for digital audio > > on > > > > the > > > > > > mac > > > > > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > > > >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > > > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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