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Joel, We are both from NYC but what is up with this attitude? Tech diving approaches change, and maybe change scares some people, but I'll put up with it to make my point. Interestingly, your chest pounding "I can omit deco, save a life, and then do a special schedule and collect scotch" sounds like 'I'm good to 240 on air'. First I will make my point, second I will clarify the scenario and then I will continue the 'game'. I was tought and believe no one survives a blow up. In your scenario, BOTH you and the unconsceous diver have times of 30 min at 225fsw (57-58 msw) Joel Silverstein wrote: > Tom, > > So lets play the scenario game here. We are out on a charter, we happen to > be on the same boat, in the same ocean on the same wreck...together. While > crusing back to the anchorline 30 min into my 225 fsw mix dive I come > accross you face down unconcious, but still emiting some signs of life. Which signs are they? There are only two signs underwater - breathing and activity. Case A. If I'm not breathing when you find me I've seen my last sunset. Don't anyone fool themselves that is not the case. The 5-6 min "cruise" to the suface you are going to continue will by itself ensure permanent brain damage, that is if I survive the bend. But that is not the scenario. Case B. Maybe I'm siezing - ox tox. Moving me up right away will give me that pnuemothorax and AGE you point out, since you do not breathe while you're having a siezure.. But don't wait, just add those problems to the little pile I've already got. This is the case where I may come out of it in a short time, perhaps a little shallower. Case C. Lets just say I'm out of it, but breathing. Ok I'm all yours. (BTW, 5-6 min to get me nuetrally bouyant if I'm not, cruise to the anchor line, find/clip on stages and ascend controlled 225 fsw to the surface keeping both our bouyancy's right and switch gas? Come on. The right ascent speed alone would take 7.5 min) Let's fix the fairytale, er - scenario, here. 10 -12 minutes to the surface with multiple ascent speed violations, maybe some descent time in there too. > Now you seem to be a nice guy and I ahve a few choices here. > > 1. swim by > 2. attach a string to you -- blow up your wings and let you go up. > 3. when wings dont move you add a lift bag to your manifold and see # 3 > 4. perform an unconcsious diver rescue and bring you up myself. > > Under 1-3 --- you if you are still alive will probably suffer pneumotorax, > AGE and possibly smack our head on the bottom of the boat snapping your > neck back enough to kill you. > > Option 4 I get the opportunity to save your ass, which I think is the > better option. now the ascent will probably take 5-6 minutes, switching my > gas along the way -- if I am lucky there will be someone else along the way > that I can pass you off to and they can daisy chain you up to the surface > if they understand the dire situation. (HEY- we need small placards that > rip open on our dry suit chests that say U/C Dive- Tox-Diver etc. so we > dont have to communicate this as we drag a diver up.) > > If I cant find someone to pass you off --- im gonna take you up myself > ---there is a slight possiblity you may come about on the way up, but > doubtful, once on the surface --- I get to see face to face the surface > people who are of course doing a walk about on thier boat all the time > while divers are in the water -- yell to them ----- GET HIM OUT U/C ON THE > BOTTOM -- I GOT DECO I MISSED ON 17/50 -- SEND SOMEON IN FOR ME --- and I > am gone back down to 30 feet below my first missed stop and I follow > OMITTED deco procedures. Since Murphy has left for the Caymans obviously the boat crew sees you as you break the surface. That 10 seconds of screaming important information to the crew is understood the fist time and there is a big ok signal given to you and back down you go. There is actually no important info given. What is the difference in the boat crew's response to a diver out of it on the surface who was unconscious on the bottom and one that blacked out as he surfaced after doing all his deco because he just remembered it is his wife's birthday today and he forgot just like last year. They are going to get him out of the water and assess and treat him, which made yelling 'get him out' the most important thing you said. Why do you need company on your omitted deco hang? This is an invitation for a charlie foxtrot if there ever was one. Probably the gas you need the most right away is the one you have the least of. Is that why you yelled to the boat what gas you were on? (Maybe there is some of it laying around in a handy stage bottle like the rip open placards you mention. If this is truley part of your dive disaster planning then I commend you on thinking this all the way through!) More than likely, if you have any bottom gas left at all, and the boat understood to bring you bottom gas from your instructions, a diver will arrive a bit later than you want with someone else's bottom mix on their back that they too will have to use and share with you a la long hose. So now there you on an extended hang, with another diver sent to you breathing mix that needs to do deco too, albeit not as much as you. (Don't forget too, he may have just cleared his dive a half an hour ago.) But how did he know what table to bring for himself? Maybe he is on an air stage, and can just follow a computer up or share some of your deco gas. No, hopefully he brought extra deco gas for you. And this was all done quick becuase you needed the bottom mix ASAP. Don't forget about peaceful ol me on deck. How do you spell cluster? There is so much going on here you will need the entire cast of ER to sort this shit out. The situation as it is, and the obvious priorities recognized, I'm dead. > That's the way it is, I will do it for my crew, my clients, some goober in > stroke gear, and yes I will do it for you too. But only once per person. > --- I will when that CG boat shows up get in and I will go to the chamber > myself and take a nice long O2 bath too. You bet you will, and the diver who helped you, if there is room for you both. After all, I was taken by helo to a chamber long before you were even up. Lets go back and return to finding other divers on the line doing deco and you pass me off to them. How is the important information going to get screamed to the boat crew? Is some other diver just happening to move up a stop to another who moves up a stop and I get passed all the way to the surface. The timing is magic. What is this daisy chain? You mean I get let up controlled by a string to the surface from the last diver at 20 fsw/9msw? This will take forever, I will probably get dropped, or float away, or hit my head on the boat and then you will get upset. Worse is if someone else while playing pass the dead diver really messes up thier deco and is hurt. This is probably a better charlie foxtrot than the first. > Enjoy the rest of your day knowing at least someone will try to save you > someday in the future. Thanks Joel. But if its me that you do come across, use this algorythm to make your decision. Case A. Not Breathing Shake me and see if I breathe. If not, tye me to the wreck, reel off to the anchor, come back for me next dive. Do not try moving me or anything else un-routine at this point in your dive. I'm dead. Case B & C. Siezing, breathing, out of it. Ascend doing your stops untill I come out of it. If I do not come out of it and I am breathing with the reg in my gob just do the deco as you would normally. THIS IS THE BEST THING FOR ME. Maybe I will come out of it with a little more time. Once I loose the reg and drowning is eminant, shoot me to the surface by jamming down on my wing inflator. Carry on the deco. I am now no worse off than I will ever be otherwise. What deco I was able to do might mean the difference. > You guys out there got to get with the program an realize someday you may > have to take something other than yourself or your cameras to the surface. Right Joel. I will drop my cameras at the earliest indication that someone needs help. I will not babysit a dead body to the surface. I know the difference. > Joel Silverstein > > PS -- I like Glenfidich ... and my wife likes Crystal........... And I like Winnie the Pooh and other cute fairytales.... Tom -- The Guns and Armour of Scapa Flow Scotland 1998 Underwater Photographic Survey of Historic Wrecks http:www.gunsofscapa.demon.co.uk -- The Guns and Armour of Scapa Flow Scotland 1998 Underwater Photographic Survey of Historic Wrecks http:www.gunsofscapa.demon.co.uk -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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