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Tom, So lets play the scenario game here. We are out on a charter, we happen to be on the same boat, in the same ocean on the same wreck...together. While crusing back to the anchorline 30 min into my 225 fsw mix dive I come accross you face down unconcious, but still emiting some signs of life. Now you seem to be a nice guy and I ahve a few choices here. 1. swim by 2. attach a string to you -- blow up your wings and let you go up. 3. when wings dont move you add a lift bag to your manifold and see # 3 4. perform an unconcsious diver rescue and bring you up myself. Under 1-3 --- you if you are still alive will probably suffer pneumotorax, AGE and possibly smack our head on the bottom of the boat snapping your neck back enough to kill you. Option 4 I get the opportunity to save your ass, which I think is the better option. now the ascent will probably take 5-6 minutes, switching my gas along the way -- if I am lucky there will be someone else along the way that I can pass you off to and they can daisy chain you up to the surface if they understand the dire situation. (HEY- we need small placards that rip open on our dry suit chests that say U/C Dive- Tox-Diver etc. so we dont have to communicate this as we drag a diver up.) If I cant find someone to pass you off --- im gonna take you up myself ---there is a slight possiblity you may come about on the way up, but doubtful, once on the surface --- I get to see face to face the surface people who are of course doing a walk about on thier boat all the time while divers are in the water -- yell to them ----- GET HIM OUT U/C ON THE BOTTOM -- I GOT DECO I MISSED ON 17/50 -- SEND SOMEON IN FOR ME --- and I am gone back down to 30 feet below my first missed stop and I follow OMITTED deco procedures. That's the way it is, I will do it for my crew, my clients, some goober in stroke gear, and yes I will do it for you too. But only once per person. --- I will when that CG boat shows up get in and I will go to the chamber myself and take a nice long O2 bath too. Enjoy the rest of your day knowing at least someone will try to save you someday in the future. You guys out there got to get with the program an realize someday you may have to take something other than yourself or your cameras to the surface. Joel Silverstein PS -- I like Glenfidich ... and my wife likes Crystal........... At 08:49 PM 10/18/1998 +0100, Thomas A. Easop wrote: >> Joel Silverstein wrote: >> >> > Tom Easop wrote: >> > >> > >Surfacing with a stricken buddy, ommitting lots of deco should not be >> > done. You >> > >will only stress those trying to rescue the stricken buddy with another >> > rescue. If >> > >you were climbing and your partner fell from the top of the cliff, you >> > would not >> > >jump off the cliff to help him, and if you did you would only make things >> > worse >> > >for the rescuers. Understand that the deeper mix dives are like standing >> > on the >> > >cliff. You must safely get to where you need to be to do anything good. >> > >> > In your scenario I am and most others would be better off not diving. >> >> Not true. In my scenario, which is what I think is a reflection of what Steve >> Belinda describes as happening to the Rouse's, we are all better off not >> 'blowing up'. The doctor who taught the class, I do not have his name handy >> since I am away from my office, has over 40 years of diving and hyperbaric >> medical experience. He specifically used the word 'blow up'. He said they are >> not survivable, do not do them. >> >> > The >> > primary thread that runs thru quality technical diving is teamwork and >> > partnership. A properly set up technical diving operation will take into >> > consideration that there may be a blow up and there may be omitted >> > decompression. Frankly if I was diving with you and you had to be taken up >> > -- I would take you and deal with the decompression afterwards. It would >> > save you and possibly bend me ... so what. You will owe me a nice case of >> > scotch every year for the rest of my life. >> >> Joel, I think we both have had excellent training, and you have chamber >> operation experience. But how would getting me to the surface 'save' me? I >> believe the good doctor since he has a great deal of experience and was in fact >> responding to this very scenario. Yes you could omit deco and then follow >> standard omitted deco procedures. And yes you might get bent, maybe not. What >> about me, the diver with the primary problem? Possibly you assume I am going to >> be able to get back into the water and start omitted deco too. That was not the >> scenario. I'm just saying be prepared and correct your problems in the water at >> depth, do not go to the surface. Avoid that at almost all costs. That is in the >> primary thread of tech diving. And this scenario was specific to exposures of >> about 30 min beyond 200 fsw. >> >> Using the best example we know of for this, why didn't Chris Sr. and Jr. do the >> omitted deco procedure? Why did Chris Sr. go right away? I think its becuase >> two stricken tech divers on the surface of the sea is too much for even the >> best dive boat crew to make right. I know many of the divers and crew connected >> with the Seeker and they are some of the best you can have on your side. Why >> did Chris Jr pass away a day later after reciveing the best hyperbaric >> treatment available? Becuase as the doctor told me in the class, 'blow ups' >> from that exposure are not survivable. >> >> I think you would not get any Scotch every year becuase I would be dead, and >> dead men don't buy scotch. And you might be too. *This romantic idea of >> rescueing someone when it is not effective and better left to boat crew or >> support divers is why I am typing so much.* Rescues have to be made when they >> are safe for the rescuer. 'Blowing up' to the surface from a mix dive is not >> it. >> >> > There is a window of opportunity for blowing off stops its about 5 minutes >> > or so ... get the guy up -- tell the surface --- and drop back down -- dont >> > dick around --- there are standard procedures for omitted decompression all >> > ya gotta do is trust them. >> >> After what the doc said, I don't trust them, not on that exposure. 'Getting the >> guy up' is a body recovery. Do it later. >> >> > This is a very good reason for diving from big well equipped properly >> > staffed diving platforms. In the event of an emergency you need PEOPLE who >> > can respond, and who WILL respond. >> >> Bingo. If there is a SIMPLE blow up without complication (and I can't imagine >> why this would happen) and the diver is to have any chance of living it is >> becuase the people on the diving platform get him back down to depth, get him >> to do omitted deco and then get him treatment for his bend. >> >> > If one fears getting bent on a technical >> > dive they should rethink their motives. >> >> Believe me my motive on tech dives is not to get bent ;-) >> >> > Bends is Not a Dirty Word >> > especially when it may save someone. >> >> Bends no, 'blow up' yes its a dirty word. Sort it out way below the surface. >> >> Tom >> -- >> The Guns and Armour of Scapa Flow Scotland >> 1998 Underwater Photographic Survey of Historic Wrecks >> http:www.gunsofscapa.demon.co.uk > > > >-- >The Guns and Armour of Scapa Flow Scotland >1998 Underwater Photographic Survey of Historic Wrecks >http:www.gunsofscapa.demon.co.uk > > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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