Mailing List Archive

Mailing List: techdiver

Message Display

Jammer Six wrote:

> On 7/21/98 19:40, Claus Lisberg, clisberg@po*.te*.dk* posted:
>
> >Ad hominems, while amusing, serve little purpose in a serious
> >debate.
>
> This is your mistake.
>
> No one here is debating anything.
>
> Mike claims he wants to learn, fine. Anyone who wants to learn, can.

Well, a truth with some modification ;)

> But no one is going to debate anything with you, and that's the mistake
> you, along with Mike, and several thousand apprentices make every day.

Hm. When I say 'debate' I mean discuss the *reasons* behind a specific train
of though, and comparing it with another, and finally maybe making some sort
of a judgment. If a subject has been beaten to death, there's usually some
references, online or in books, that removes the need for tedious,
repetitive explanations.

> If you want to learn it, great, they'll teach you. But if you want to
> debate, you apparently haven't decided whether or not you want to learn
> it yet, so you need to go decide that.

Not sure I'm following you here. Debating can in some situations the
ultimate way of learning something - it'll remove those nagging doubts one
might have, or even prove a theory utterly wrong.

I question everything, including my own sanity. If it turns out asking a
specific individual why and how he came to a conclusion would result in him
exploding in anger and hurt pride, I'd back off, keep listening to the man
and try to work out the reasons myself. Second guessing is not as reliable,
though.

> Learning takes place once you've decided that you want to learn what's
> here, not during the process of deciding, or during the process of
> choosing a teacher.

Certainly. I've also learned that a teacher usually has a great deal of
knowledge, but time spent in what's equivalent to your sunday school showed
me that blind faith is not the way to go - I am here to *learn*, not to be
brainwashed into accepting the current dogma, be it from bungee lovers or
their adversaries.

You're right, though. This far I've kept my mouth shut, ears and eyes open
and spam killer on stand by. Inevitably some questions will arise, and I'd
like be able to answer them with logic rather than unsupported assertions.
And to show that something is an unsupported assertion, that very thing
needs to be debated.

Debate for clarification should not be shunned. Debating to defend a fragile
ego, bad purchase or just for the sake of argumentation is a different
matter. No one is under any obligation to teach me anything, and I'm
thankful for every little bit that comes my way. I'll not treat anyone as a
god or superior being, hence I approach him as I would most other people;
with respect and honesty. Being allowed to ask a question is not a right, I
know that, but it's part of interacting with other people.

> "C'mon, you sons of bitches, you want to live forever?"
>      -First Sergeant Dan Daley
> "Who wants to live forever?"
>      -Freddie Mercury
> "I swear, I'm going to live forever"
>      -Jon Bon Jovi

--
Claus Lisberg,
Founder of PSWEH (Poor Students With Expensive Hobbies)
Nirfur prophet #1, a.a atheist #1116
"A casual stroll through an asylum will show that faith proves nothing." -
F. Nietzsche


--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]