The badly needed BFG - amen.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:joe@po*.co*]
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:37 PM
To: Capt JT; Christian Gerzner; Jim Cobb; wendell grogan
Cc: AUE@mi*.ne*; techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: VBTech vs. Nova Tech


 >>>>But they all now know you guys dirty little secret and it will get
>>>>around.........

JT, you are a pathetic, dirty little man - alot like a peeping Tom with a
camera attempting to blackmail people.  The true hallmark of a scumbag.

These lists are supposed to be for the betterment of the sport, not about
your personal and petty axe to grind.

You are extremely dangerous because you promote yourself as an expert, when
in fact you an incompetent diver.  By your own public admission you washed
out of a Fundamentals course which is not much more than PADI 101 with no
cheating allowed.  Then you publicly announce doing a 380' dive, the
implication being that you don't need basic skills to do these dives.
People read this stuff and think, "If he can do it, so can I."  Reality is
that nothing could be further from the truth.  You have been lucky but one
day your ego will bite you in the ass.

You pride yourself on publicly announcing your numerous CF's and yet you
refuse to correct your ways thinking that as along as you announce your
stupidity to the world it is OK to keep doing the same dumb things over and
over.  Confession may be good for the soul but it doesn't do jack in diving
unless you amend your ways.

Your pompous comment about being the only one on your Doria trip capable of
tying into the wreck was hilarious.  Any one of our group could hit that
thing with a drop from Pompano.  Sheesh - it's only the size of a skyscraper
under water.

JT, I would really like to be able to say that although we disagree on some
diving issues you are a nice guy.  But I can't.  You callously and
irresponsibly misrepresent your abilities to people and present yourself  as
some form of expert when the truth is just the opposite.  Your sordid
attempt to cloud the issue of your incompetitance with some unrelated
artifact crap is really sickening.   FYI, if you were there and something
was in fact wrong or illegal you were part of it and just as guilty as
anyone else.  As a matter of fact, you are far worse because while you
purport to be on this high moral plane you are in reality a blackmailer.  An
inept and stupid one, but no matter how you look at it, blackmail is what
you are attempting.  If you have pictures or whatever, go ahead and post
them because no one really cares.  Knock yourself out.  In the end you will
look like an even bigger ass than you do right now.

Grandstanding in an attempt to prevent what is probably a nice group of
people (VB Tech) from learning safer, more efficient methods of diving so
that you can be their "hero" and leader is quite sickening.  I am sure they
are an intelligent bunch so it is just a matter of time before they find you
out.

By the way, since you hired the ghost writer your posts sound almost
coherent.

Regards.

Joe


----- Original Message -----
From: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*>
To: "Joe" <joe@po*.co*>; "wendell grogan" <docgrog@ya*.de*>; "Jim
Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>; "Christian Gerzner"
<christiang@in*.co*.au*>
Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; <AUE@mi*.ne*>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: VBTech vs. Nova Tech


> I doubt you will get anyone to admit to taking artifacts off a wreck that
> is in protected waters, but you, I , and the new email address you added
> know this happened and exactly as I say. The proof is in the
> photos......... I see you have not approved your post since I brought this
> up and you are the only one who was not there, but know it is true. I will
> not approve mine unless I see yours or any of these bystanders reply with
a
> post. But they all now know you guys dirty little secret and it will get
> around.........
>
>
>
>   At 06:37 PM 7/30/02 -0700, Joe wrote:
> >Hi JT:
> >
> >  >>>I was wondering, do any of you guys get separated in the current
> > >>>doing drifting deco
> >
> >No.  Not if you all leave the wreck together.
> >
> > >>>or leave anyone alone in the water to deco by themselves.
> >
> >In years past we would leave after the 10' stop.  I personally would stay
> >with whomever I buddied with (we pick one person out of the group with
whom
> >we buddy) but would leave when he and I finished.  If someone else
appeared
> >to be OK and gave the OK sign I would leave, my reason being that many
> >divers do far more deco than is necessary and I don't like staying on the
> >high ppO2's more than I have to.  However, after witnessing someone leave
> >deco OK, surface, swim a bit and then convulse, I have seriously
rethought
> >that practice and leave NO one in the water alone, even a total stranger.
> >
> > >>> was on a deep dive once and got left in the water by myself while
>>>the
> >rest went up to the boat to look at the artifacts they had >>>recovered
off
> >the wreck. Being left in the water is really bad, but >>>when I found out
> >the wreck was protected and told to keep my >>>mouth shut, I even got a
> >worse feeling about diving with those guys.
> >
> >Since you and I have never been in the water together, I don't quite know
> >what you are alluding to.  I would, however, have to agree that it is
wrong
> >to knowingly take artifacts off a protected wreck.  That is almost as bad
as
> >spearing lobsters or scrubbing egg laden females.  I will cc this to
those
> >who did dive with you and see if they wish to comment.
> >
> >But this thread is about drifting vs. anchor diving.  The real issue is
that
> >you can anchor dive with no fundamental skills so long as you can hang on
> >for dear life.  The problems begin when you get blown off the deco line
and
> >can't do your deco because you have no fundamental skills.
> >
> >Divers can cover their inadequacies for many years hanging on the deco
line
> >for dear life.  When they get blown off and do not have the requisite
skills
> >to complete their dive they get into trouble and wind up bent or even
worse.
> >In summary, like most other things in life, the path to the sky is built
on
> >the fundamental building blocks of hard work and training, not on hot air
> >balloons.
> >
> >Regards.
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*>
> >To: "Joe" <joe@po*.co*>; "wendell grogan" <docgrog@ya*.de*>;
"Jim
> >Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>; "Christian Gerzner"
> ><christiang@in*.co*.au*>
> >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:45 PM
> >Subject: Re: VBTech vs. Nova Tech
> >
> >
> > > At 10:25 PM 7/29/02 -0700, Joe wrote:
> > > >We routinely put 5 to 10 divers on deep wrecks in ripping currents
and
> > > >everyone hits the wreck and there are no CF's.  It isn't difficult to
do
> >so.
> > > >All it takes is basic, fundamental skills.  Pun intended.
> > >
> > > I was wondering, do any of you guys get separated in the current doing
> > > drifting deco or leave anyone alone in the water to deco by
themselves. I
> > > was on a deep dive once and got left in the water by myself while the
rest
> > > went up to the boat to look at the artifacts they had recovered
> > > off the wreck. Being left in the water is really bad, but when I found
out
> > > the wreck was protected and told to keep my mouth shut, I even got a
worse
> > > feeling about diving with those guys.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Regards to all.
> > > >
> > > >Joe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "wendell grogan" <docgrog@ya*.de*>
> > > >To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>; "Christian Gerzner"
> > > ><christiang@in*.co*.au*>
> > > >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > >Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 7:43 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: VBTech vs. Nova Tech
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Just before this latest tiff started, I had been
> > > > > getting a lot of very interesting information (off
> > > > > list) on how things are done in the British Isles.
> > > > > They do this (drift deco after dive bombing the wreck)
> > > > > as a matter of routine, but there is quite a bit to
> > > > > consider and a number of new skills to be practiced
> > > > > for this to come out right.
> > > > > I was also thinking about the advantages last weekend
> > > > > while doing my 20 foot stop along with what seemed
> > > > > like a cast of thousands, the boat bucking in rollers
> > > > > perpendicular to the slight current and helping out my
> > > > > buddy with a leaking back up reg hose...
> > > > > Basic Anglo-Saxon words regarding various bodily
> > > > > functions kept going through my mind, but the
> > > > > conclusion seems to be that we should start doing this
> > > > > here in the North Atlantic US.
> > > > > The problems are inertia and a lack of
> > > > > experience/training that would make it a matter of
> > > > > routine for most if not all dives.  Also, since the
> > > > > thing that drives the industry is people who are
> > > > > either taking or just finishing AOW going on shallow
> > > > > wreck dives, finding a boat operator who wants to run
> > > > > the training dives on what would normally be their
> > > > > milk run wrecks, is going to be tough.
> > > > > Wendell
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*> wrote:
> > > > > > This leads back to the basic question: What do you
> > > > > > require to be on your
> > > > > > diveboat before you go out on it? George knows this
> > > > > > situation with
> > > > > > chaseboats and his solution, which costs the dive
> > > > > > operations nothing but
> > > > > > some fuel and inconvinence, is to not anchor to a
> > > > > > wreck during a dive.
> > > > > > Problem solved. No chaseboat needed, no deployment
> > > > > > issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
> > > > > http://health.yahoo.com
> > > > > --
> > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
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> > > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > >
> > >
> > > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get
in
> >the
> > > water"
> > > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
> > >   Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> > > Email     captjt@mi*.co*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >--
> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>
>
> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
the
> water"
> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
>   Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> Email     captjt@mi*.co*
>
>
>
>

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