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George, Call me if you want to hear what occurred. It is not going to happen here. Mike >From: "George Irvine" <girvine@be*.ne*> >Reply-To: <trey@ne*.co*> >To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>, "Barker" <captjt@mi*.co*>, >"Michael Barnette" <aocfishman@ho*.co*>, "VB Tech" ><vbtech@ci*.co*>, "Tech Diver" <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >CC: ". David B Widen" <dwiden@co*.ne*> >Subject: RE: Last weekend's accident at Little River - newspaper report >Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:51:36 -0500 > >If somebody is toxing using our gases and schedules, which I assume AUE >does >, then that person need not be diving ever. If somebody gets real or >paradoxical AGE, that person need not be diving. > >What happened here? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*] >Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:12 PM >To: Barker; Michael Barnette; VB Tech; Tech Diver >Cc: . David B Widen >Subject: Re: Last weekend's accident at Little River - newspaper report > > >Mike I take exception to your little diatribe here. Any time a tech diver >has a near death experience (and from what I understand he would have been >dead if he hadn't had someone just happen to be nearby who knew what in >fuck >he was doing) I want to know about it. Why? Because it might be MY ASS next >time and I need to know what happened. > >On my Trimix website, do you know what the runaway most popular section is? >The AQUACorps accident pages. You call it "rubbernecking" and "morbid >curiosity." I call it "learning from other peoples mistakes." You are a >fool >if you don't ask "what the fuck happened." > >And that crap you emailed to Dave, it was just more bullshit. Saying that >these "experts" of yours determined that Becky had an AGE is such crap. Who >the fuck are these "experts" of yours who can diagnose a patient from 2000 >miles away from just what you told them? I'm calling you on that crap, >Mike. > >Mike, it's time you had a coming to Jesus. You guys are doing your "same >ocean" shit and sooner or later something like this was bound to happen. I >always wondered if you would fess up or cover up. Now I know. > >You have given JT shit over what he has experienced but there is a >difference. JT has the balls to tell people of what he learned in order to >help other people learn from his and other's mistakes. You, on the other >hand, cover it up because of your big fucking ego. > >I find it a "tad worrisome" that you care so little about your fellow >divers >as to brush this off as some sort of inconsequential non-issue, not worthy >of your time. If Eric had not happed by the fellow he would have >disappeared >and boy would you be doing some fancy footwork to keep that under the >covers. > >What I'd really like to see is Doc Grogan talking to this fellow so that he >can compare the TOX incident that Becky had to what occurred down there. >Most often in these cases the diver just floats away or winds up on the >bottom, nobody can figure out what really happened. To have a survivor of a >AGE or TOX to talk to is really important for our collective database. I >want to know what he felt before he passed out, how he felt on the bottom, >how his bottles were marked, if he did a unintentional ascent and then >dropped back down, or what. Not the whitewash BS you report below. > >Get it together, Mike, how can you promote AUE as being in a leadership >position in Techdiving if you do bullshit like this. This really gives your >group a black eye. > > Jim > > >>>> > >>>> I told Widen the very same thing. I offered to give any details to >those > >>>> that wish to know them. Instead you post this bullshit, proving you >don't > >>>> care about the details. you guys don't care about any "lesson" you >just > >>>> have a morbid curiousity - like a bunch of rubber-neckers on I-95. > >>>> > >>>> > > >JT- > >Again, you are wasting my time. As I mentioned in the e-mails to Widen, >I > >fully acknowledge that shit happens. I have never said my dives were > >perfect. However, I am not a drama queen, nor am I constantly plagued > >with problems on my dives. There is a big difference to covering > >something up, and just not posting it to the lists. I have followed this > >up with numerous pulmonary and hyperbaric physicians and I have freely > >discussed this with anyone that had brought it up, such as with Mr. David > >Widen. > >Furthermore, there is a huge difference between this incident and the > >incident with Tai, so go fish somewhere else. > >So, since you are posting my private response to you, why don't you post > >the e-mails I sent to Widen *verbatim* where I freely discussed the >events > >and why I candidly stated why it would not be posted to the list, which > >you are so gloriously illustrating? Nah, that would help prove my point. > >Listen, you deserve no repsonse or explanation from me. We could easily > >get in a battle here that would serve absolutely no purpose. If it will > >make you feel better, go right ahead and try and "smash my dick." I >could > >care less about you and I could care less about George. I have nothing > >further to say to you as you are a waste of time. > >Mike > > > > >Mike > >I think the assumption of AGE is in correct. It does not fit the situation >with Becky at all. It may will you guy since I do not really any of the >details. If there is some other physical situation at work here, it needs >to >be discussed openly and get the opinions of knowledgable diving medical >folks. If what happened to him is the same as Becky, then it could happen >to >me, you or anyone. > >What I have heard from the event does not fit AGE at all. I also question >this individual condition and improvement from O2 treatment if it was AGE. > >If it is a procedural issue, do you have the experience in house to improve >it to the best point? If not then you may need to confer with others that >may have the needed insight and experiences to assist in the correction or >improvement. > >Let others learn and avoid the same mistake(s) or issue(s). If there are >some monsters waiting for others, we need to ID to help me, you, and other >avoid this. We now have two events in less than one year that sound some >what similar. I and others need to know more of the condition or let >someone >like Wendell eval for similarities and cause. > >Thanks for the info. Look at publishing for open discussion. > >Work load and tasking - I think we all have our overload running high these >days but this is important to us all. > >David > >-----Original Message----- >From: Michael Barnette [mailto:aocfishman@ho*.co*] >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:01 PM >To: dwiden@co*.ne* >Subject: Re: AUE > > >Hi David- >If you know the rumors, odds are you know the details. We will not >conclusively know what happened, but we personally discussed this with >three >top-notch diving physiologists the day after the incident. They all agreed >that the most likely scenario is an AGE. Odds are, this is exactly what >happened to Becky also, not O2 toxicity. We are still waiting to hear back >on the individual's PFO test. It will be a shock if it is a PFO, as he has >done a lot of deep dives, many with much more aggressive schedules than on >the day of the incident. However, the docs said that is just one possible >way this could have occurred. A hundred things could be going on in the >body that could precipitate this. It could also be a harbinger of >something >amiss in the indiviudal, which is a tad worriesome. >There was nothing really leading up to the event. He surfaced, and within >seconds the hammer dropped. We had a very quick response, however I did >not >witness any of it as I had a long bottom time and had a bit more deco to >conduct. It was not until someone splashed and notified my buddy and I, >was >I aware of the situation. >The facts are the individual did 25 minutes on the bottom. 18/40/42 bottom >mix. EANx 50 and 100% deco. Excellent physical shape. Well rested. Well >hydrated. Easy dive. Very conservative tables. Surfaced. Pow. >The guys on the surface had him on the boat and treating him with O2 in >very >short order. However, I was not there so I only know what was told to me >after the fact. >We have discussed this internally and are addressing the event in the way >we >dive, to the extent possible. > >I am sure you already have more information than this. I do not have time >to post more or get in a long obtuse discussion about it on the lists as I >have a lot going on now. > >Cheers, >Mike > > > >From: "David B. Widen" <dwiden@co*.ne*> > >Reply-To: <dwiden@co*.ne*> > >To: "'Michael Barnette'" <aocfishman@ho*.co*> > >Subject: AUE > >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 06:26:17 -0500 > > > >Mike > > > >The rumor mill has it that an event occurred on one of the dives. Not all > >dives are book perfect. Maybe you could post the facts for discuss, >lessons > >learned, and to help others from do the same or similar things leading up > >to > >the event. We are not looking to hammer or flame but to discuss and >improve > >safety and knowledge. This is part of the prevention process and program >we > >all need to keep the sport as safe and unregulated as we can. > > > >David > > > > > > >Michael C. Barnette >Association of Underwater Explorers >Because it's there...somewhere...maybe. >http://www.mikey.net/aue > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > > > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > Michael C. Barnette Association of Underwater Explorers Because it's there...somewhere...maybe. http://www.mikey.net/aue _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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