Joe

Life in general has risks involved. Every activity you partake in has risk.
There are always things one can do that increase or decrease those risks.
Those risk can be physical, emotional, or psychological. If you are
unwilling to deal and manage the risk then one needs to stay that hole safe
and sound as the world goes by. JT's comment about planning is just one of
those action to reduce risk. Diet, fitness (physical & mental), experience,
practice, buddy, buddy plan, gas plan, type of gas, etc. are just a few
other that also help.

I am a firm believer that each and everyone one of us is responsible to
ourselves and family. Last time I checked, very Technical Diver (Cave,
wreck, etc.) had to be at least 18 years old. That qualifies them as a legal
adult and legally responsible. First to themselves and then others.

The legal attacks on the boat, dive buddy, captain, instructor,  the
assistant to instructor, person filling the tanks, the manufacturer, etc is
a hole in our legal system. Take you responsibility away and give to someone
else. Let someone else make the decision for you and the bitch that someone
else in in control. Well you give it away.

If this BS keeps up, Uncle will be in control. Yes he was fat, no he should
not have been making the dive. These are all other peoples opinion (educated
or not). The final choice was his. He did not plan well. He did not listen
all the thing other people probably told him. He did not listen to the words
on these lists. He pay the ultimate price. We as a sport will also suffer as
the legal beagle do their dance, the Fed & CG get deeper into our affairs.

Where was his buddy?

The suit is wrong and the dollar figure is out of this world.

The lawyers are there to make a living just like everyone else in what ever
their profession or discipline are.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: FLTechDiver-owner@mikey.net [mailto:FLTechDiver-owner@mikey.net]On
Behalf Of Joe
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 10:05 PM
To: Tom Mount; Dell Motes; chris cole; aocfishman@ho*.co*;
FLTechDiver@mikey.net; vbtech@ci*.co*; Capt JT
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: (another) diver death lawsuit


Hi JT:

Knowing it CAN happen is quite a bit different from thinking it WILL happen.
If I think something bad WILL happen, I don't do the dive.  If you expect a
bad outcome and you still proceed, it is far more likely to occur.  If you
recognize the risk and only proceed after doing that which is necessary to
avoid or minimize the risk it is far less likely to occur.  IE:  We all
recognize that a regulator can fail.  That's why we carry two.  I never
expect that my regulator WILL fail.  Only that it CAN fail.  If I have a
regulator that is questionable, I don't proceed thinking that its OK because
I have a spare.

If you execute a dive that has a high risk you must respect and recognize
the risk but you must also be confident that you can deal with and overcome
that risk.  If you were not confident that you could proceed safely in spite
of the risk you should go bowling that day.

I think we are saying the same thing only wording it differently.

Regards.

Joe



----- Original Message -----
From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*>
To: Joe <joe@po*.co*>; Tom Mount <tom.mount@ia*.co*>; Dell Motes
<dell@di*.co*>; chris cole <trimix@ho*.co*>;
<aocfishman@ho*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; <vbtech@ci*.co*>
Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: (another) diver death lawsuit


> At 03:09 PM 2/7/02 -0800, Joe wrote:
>
> >If you think or expect something bad to happen it will.
>
> Not true, if you always expect something to happen or think there is the
> possibility that it could happen or it has a high risk factor, then you
> will be prepare to handle that event should it in fact DO HAPPEN. I think
> we call it planning.......
>
>
> >Regards.
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Tom Mount <tom.mount@ia*.co*>
> >To: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>; chris cole <trimix@ho*.co*>;
> ><aocfishman@ho*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>;
<vbtech@ci*.co*>
> >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 10:42 AM
> >Subject: Re: (another) diver death lawsuit
> >
> >
> > > Interesting
> > >
> > > But in my early military days I learned to accept that death is a
> > > possibility, that may even become a probability if the risk of the
> >activity
> > > is high enough.
> > >
> > > However it is never a certainty, in my philosophy I accept the fact
that I
> > > can die doing any activity I pursue (including driving to and from
work)
> >So
> > > I accept the possibility of dying and thus plan so that the
possibility or
> > > even probability does not become a certainty. I think that anytime
someone
> > > breathes underwater they should accept there is possibility of dying
due
> >to
> > > such things as bumping your head in the swimming pool. that keeps us
from
> > > making the mistakes that may lead to death from behaviors people who
do
> >not
> > > realize that possibility exist would take. I think many divers die
because
> > > they do not accept the possibility that you can die doing just bout
> >anything
> > > we do in life.
> > >
> > > I think my philosophy on this issue has saved my life on numerous
times,
> >in
> > > military, in diving , climbing, and in many other of my activities
even
> > > martial arts. Awareness of a risk  is the key to avoiding the
occurrence.
> > > Just my thoughts
> > >
> > > I do accept the risk and I do enjoy the activity
> > >
> > > Tom Mount
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dell Motes" <dell@di*.co*>
> > > To: "chris cole" <trimix@ho*.co*>; <aocfishman@ho*.co*>;
> > > <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; <vbtech@ci*.co*>
> > > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 12:47 PM
> > > Subject: Re: (another) diver death lawsuit
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey there Chris,
> > > > I, for one, was never taught that death was a real possibility. I
would
> > > find
> > > > it un-acceptable as being on my list of possible occurences to
prepare
> >for
> > > > during a dive.
> > > > After many years of experience, it continues to be un-acceptable to
me.
> > > > Several years ago, more than one friend told me of this being stated
> > > during
> > > > a particular project. Something to the effect that, "this is so
risky,
> > > that
> > > > odds are someone will not survive".
> > > > That works to sell movies, but anyone that accepts that as normal
SOP is
> > > not
> > > > on the same page as I am. That is absolutely ludicrus to continue
> >planning
> > > > death as a factor in logistics, or any undertaking for that matter.
> > > > It has and will continue to happen, but I do not consider it
acceptable
> >at
> > > > any level of play.
> > > > Maybe I could be considered a coward by some, but I don't subscribe
to
> >the
> > > > daredevil stuff.
> > > > I plan to make it home when I 'm done, and I don't mind telling
anybody
> > > I'm
> > > > diving with what they need to hear in order for me to meet my goals.
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > > Dell Motes
> > > > Research & Development
> > > > Dive Rite
> > > > 117 West Washington Street
> > > > Lake City, Florida 32055
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "chris cole" <trimix@ho*.co*>
> > > > To: <aocfishman@ho*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>;
> > > > <vbtech@ci*.co*>
> > > > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:17 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: (another) diver death lawsuit
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > FOR WHAT ITS WORTH!
> > > > >
> > > > > Tec Diving is an inherently dangerous sport in which we all were
> >taught
> > > > that
> > > > > DEATH is a real possibility. It should not be up to a dive boat to
> >play
> > > > > mother to any level of diver and certainly not to a trained Tec
diver.
> > > > Yes,
> > > > > the instructor should accept some responsibility for certifying a
> >person
> > > > > that is obviously out of shape. I am an IT for IANTD and have had
> > > several
> > > > > occasions where overweight, people have come to me for Tec
training, I
> > > am
> > > > > very hard on my students, both physically and mentally, the joke
is
> >that
> > > > if
> > > > > you survive my classes that there isn't much that you have to
worry
> > > about
> > > >
> > > > > later. Yes, I am prejudice against those I view to be not fit for
> > > diving.
> > > > I
> > > > > am even harder on them.
> > > > > If you are over weight, not medically fit, or not psychologically
fit
> > > than
> > > > > do us all a favor. DON'T DIVE! I, quite frankly don't care if you
kill
> > > > > yourself, but you endanger all those who dive with you as well as
the
> > > > > freedom we have from governmental intervention.
> > > > >
> > > > >                                        Chris Cole
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> > > > >
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>
> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
the
> water"
>
> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
>   Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> Email     captjt@mi*.co*
>
>
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