Joe, I suspect we are saying the same thing, just splitting hairs, can and 
will is in the mind of the diver. Like when talking about getting bent, its 
not a matter of if, but when. The more you push the limit, the closer 
"when" gets.



  At 07:05 PM 2/7/02 -0800, Joe wrote:
>Hi JT:
>
>Knowing it CAN happen is quite a bit different from thinking it WILL happen.
>If I think something bad WILL happen, I don't do the dive.  If you expect a
>bad outcome and you still proceed, it is far more likely to occur.  If you
>recognize the risk and only proceed after doing that which is necessary to
>avoid or minimize the risk it is far less likely to occur.  IE:  We all
>recognize that a regulator can fail.  That's why we carry two.  I never
>expect that my regulator WILL fail.  Only that it CAN fail.  If I have a
>regulator that is questionable, I don't proceed thinking that its OK because
>I have a spare.
>
>If you execute a dive that has a high risk you must respect and recognize
>the risk but you must also be confident that you can deal with and overcome
>that risk.  If you were not confident that you could proceed safely in spite
>of the risk you should go bowling that day.
>
>I think we are saying the same thing only wording it differently.
>
>Regards.
>
>Joe
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*>
>To: Joe <joe@po*.co*>; Tom Mount <tom.mount@ia*.co*>; Dell Motes
><dell@di*.co*>; chris cole <trimix@ho*.co*>;
><aocfishman@ho*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; <vbtech@ci*.co*>
>Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:36 PM
>Subject: Re: (another) diver death lawsuit
>
>
> > At 03:09 PM 2/7/02 -0800, Joe wrote:
> >
> > >If you think or expect something bad to happen it will.
> >
> > Not true, if you always expect something to happen or think there is the
> > possibility that it could happen or it has a high risk factor, then you
> > will be prepare to handle that event should it in fact DO HAPPEN. I think
> > we call it planning.......
> >
> >
> > >Regards.
> > >
> > >Joe
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: Tom Mount <tom.mount@ia*.co*>
> > >To: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>; chris cole <trimix@ho*.co*>;
> > ><aocfishman@ho*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>;
><vbtech@ci*.co*>
> > >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 10:42 AM
> > >Subject: Re: (another) diver death lawsuit
> > >
> > >
> > > > Interesting
> > > >
> > > > But in my early military days I learned to accept that death is a
> > > > possibility, that may even become a probability if the risk of the
> > >activity
> > > > is high enough.
> > > >
> > > > However it is never a certainty, in my philosophy I accept the fact
>that I
> > > > can die doing any activity I pursue (including driving to and from
>work)
> > >So
> > > > I accept the possibility of dying and thus plan so that the
>possibility or
> > > > even probability does not become a certainty. I think that anytime
>someone
> > > > breathes underwater they should accept there is possibility of dying
>due
> > >to
> > > > such things as bumping your head in the swimming pool. that keeps us
>from
> > > > making the mistakes that may lead to death from behaviors people who
>do
> > >not
> > > > realize that possibility exist would take. I think many divers die
>because
> > > > they do not accept the possibility that you can die doing just bout
> > >anything
> > > > we do in life.
> > > >
> > > > I think my philosophy on this issue has saved my life on numerous
>times,
> > >in
> > > > military, in diving , climbing, and in many other of my activities
>even
> > > > martial arts. Awareness of a risk  is the key to avoiding the
>occurrence.
> > > > Just my thoughts
> > > >
> > > > I do accept the risk and I do enjoy the activity
> > > >
> > > > Tom Mount
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dell Motes" <dell@di*.co*>
> > > > To: "chris cole" <trimix@ho*.co*>; <aocfishman@ho*.co*>;
> > > > <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; <vbtech@ci*.co*>
> > > > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 12:47 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: (another) diver death lawsuit
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hey there Chris,
> > > > > I, for one, was never taught that death was a real possibility. I
>would
> > > > find
> > > > > it un-acceptable as being on my list of possible occurences to
>prepare
> > >for
> > > > > during a dive.
> > > > > After many years of experience, it continues to be un-acceptable to
>me.
> > > > > Several years ago, more than one friend told me of this being stated
> > > > during
> > > > > a particular project. Something to the effect that, "this is so
>risky,
> > > > that
> > > > > odds are someone will not survive".
> > > > > That works to sell movies, but anyone that accepts that as normal
>SOP is
> > > > not
> > > > > on the same page as I am. That is absolutely ludicrus to continue
> > >planning
> > > > > death as a factor in logistics, or any undertaking for that matter.
> > > > > It has and will continue to happen, but I do not consider it
>acceptable
> > >at
> > > > > any level of play.
> > > > > Maybe I could be considered a coward by some, but I don't subscribe
>to
> > >the
> > > > > daredevil stuff.
> > > > > I plan to make it home when I 'm done, and I don't mind telling
>anybody
> > > > I'm
> > > > > diving with what they need to hear in order for me to meet my goals.
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > Dell Motes
> > > > > Research & Development
> > > > > Dive Rite
> > > > > 117 West Washington Street
> > > > > Lake City, Florida 32055
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "chris cole" <trimix@ho*.co*>
> > > > > To: <aocfishman@ho*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>;
> > > > > <vbtech@ci*.co*>
> > > > > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:17 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: (another) diver death lawsuit
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > FOR WHAT ITS WORTH!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tec Diving is an inherently dangerous sport in which we all were
> > >taught
> > > > > that
> > > > > > DEATH is a real possibility. It should not be up to a dive boat to
> > >play
> > > > > > mother to any level of diver and certainly not to a trained Tec
>diver.
> > > > > Yes,
> > > > > > the instructor should accept some responsibility for certifying a
> > >person
> > > > > > that is obviously out of shape. I am an IT for IANTD and have had
> > > > several
> > > > > > occasions where overweight, people have come to me for Tec
>training, I
> > > > am
> > > > > > very hard on my students, both physically and mentally, the joke
>is
> > >that
> > > > > if
> > > > > > you survive my classes that there isn't much that you have to
>worry
> > > > about
> > > > >
> > > > > > later. Yes, I am prejudice against those I view to be not fit for
> > > > diving.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > am even harder on them.
> > > > > > If you are over weight, not medically fit, or not psychologically
>fit
> > > > than
> > > > > > do us all a favor. DON'T DIVE! I, quite frankly don't care if you
>kill
> > > > > > yourself, but you endanger all those who dive with you as well as
>the
> > > > > > freedom we have from governmental intervention.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >                                        Chris Cole
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ============================================================
> > > > > > To contact the list administrator, email
> > > > > > Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
> > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
> > > > > > listserv@mi*.ne*
> > > > > > and in the *BODY* of the message type:
> > > > > > unsubscribe FLTechDiver
> > > > >
> > > > > ============================================================
> > > > > To contact the list administrator, email
> > > > > Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
> > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
> > > > > listserv@mi*.ne*
> > > > > and in the *BODY* of the message type:
> > > > > unsubscribe FLTechDiver
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ============================================================
> > > > To contact the list administrator, email
> > > > Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
> > > > listserv@mi*.ne*
> > > > and in the *BODY* of the message type:
> > > > unsubscribe FLTechDiver
> > > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >
> > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
>the
> > water"
> >
> > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
> >   Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> > Email     captjt@mi*.co*
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > To contact the list administrator, email
> > Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
> > listserv@mi*.ne*
> > and in the *BODY* of the message type:
> > unsubscribe FLTechDiver
> >

"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the 
water"

Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
  Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
Email     captjt@mi*.co*


--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]