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Stop right there. I sited a situation that I observed. I did not state that
I or the group up here agreed or supported it. We normally take extra O2 &
HE in "K" on the boat or in trailor for rode trips. Such as our visit to FL
over the past two years. One of the guys has a portable haskel.
So you comment of "You just do not get it. You guys are are hopeless. ..."
is incorrect and inappropriate.
-----Original Message-----
From: Trey [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 6:44 AM
To: David B. Widen; Andy@Sc*.AS*; techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: RE: 100% Helium in Scuba Cylinders?
Still extremely;y stupid and bullshit. Tell me what 200 mix you can top
off in doubles with an 80 of helium at 2200. Don't tell me you had a haskel
and were still stupid enough to put helium in an improperly marked scuba
tank. The best you could get would be 17 or 18 percent. Sound familiar? This
is what I call "STROKE MIX", for morons who do not understand helium in
diving. At 200 feet, this is useless, and 17% is not the right mix for any
dive, nor does it give any of the benefits of helium in the proper
percentages, which needs to be at least 30 for diving ( over 100 feet) and
25 for shallow deco bottles.
You just do not get it. You guys are hopeless. This is why I keep anyone
away from me who thinks this way ( convoluted nonsensical crap ).
-----Original Message-----
From: David B. Widen [mailto:dwiden@ho*.co*]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 4:47 AM
To: 'Trey'; 'David B. Widen'; Andy@Sc*.AS*; techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: RE: 100% Helium in Scuba Cylinders?
George
One time it was some of the probably more the NE splash. The other time
was SC equalizes for good HE percentage on a 200 fsw set of dives. I do not
remember there target percentages, but it was more than a splash. Both times
the tanks were well marks to avoid confusion.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Trey [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 9:19 PM
To: David B. Widen; Andy@Sc*.AS*; techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: RE: 100% Helium in Scuba Cylinders?
Dave, what where they,. double spare airs? Or are we talking the NE
splash of helium and I am a trimix diver mix?
-----Original Message-----
From: David B. Widen [mailto:dwiden@ho*.co*]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:48 PM
To: Andy@Sc*.AS*; techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: RE: 100% Helium in Scuba Cylinders?
Andy
The times that I have seen people put 100% HE in scuba tanks, as a
fill, was to us it to equalize back into double for remixing on boat
expedition where transporting and use "K" of HE would not be appropriate.
This has been done by small buddy teams trying to be self sufficient. This
is another way of premixing and managing gas on multiple day and multiple
dives yet managing weight and equipment.
I have not nor has others in the VB Tech used this method to date,
but have see other use it when visiting us.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Schmidt [mailto:Andy_Schmidt@HM*.co*]On Behalf
Of Andy@Sc*.AS*
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:20 PM
To: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: 100% Helium in Scuba Cylinders?
Hi,
educate me please:
>> died as a result of breathing 100% helium <<
I understand the political and human-error discussion of this
unfortunate accident - but what's the operational purpose to EVER fill and
carry a 100% He scuba cylinder ANYWHERE. What am I missing? I understand
100% He in designated storage bottles - and I can see it being used in
CCRs - but why even FILL 100% He in cylinders that are designated for Scuba
use?
Best Regards
Andy Schmidt
Phone: +1 201 934-3414 x20 (Business)
Fax: +1 201 934-9206
PS: Techdiver list disclaimer - please conserve bandwidth. The
usual slander and personal attacks should be sent directly to my email
address. I promise they will have the same effect.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Noe [mailto:chucknoe@ca*.co*]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:30 AM
To: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Cc: quest@gu*.co*; Techdiver; Houston Cavers
Subject: Re: DIR Fatalities
George Irvine wrote:
I can keep turning it up
and turning it up, and don't give a shit about his family or anyone else. He
lied to me and the team, made me look like an asshole
So George is worried that Jonathan's terrible mistake and death
"made (him) look like an asshole". That's really a sad comment.
This shouldn't reflect on him or the WKPP. Jonathan was not
participating in a WKPP event at the time of his death.
He clearly violated DIR standards and died as a result of
breathing 100% helium from what he thought was an O2 deco cylinder.
Others should KNOW this so that his mistake will not be
repeated.
1) Do not put helium in bottles indiscriminately.
2) Do not use bottles that are not marked properly.
3) Analyze everything (even oxygen).
4) Do not rush to resume diving following a serious illness.
5) Do not rush to do ANY dive. Take your time; be methodical.
George can call me any name he prefers, but he cannot change the
cause and outcome of this tragic accident. I do know that Jonathan would
have wanted the truth to be known.
Chuck
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D832233911-20122001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Stop=20
right there. I sited a situation that I observed. I did not state that I =
or the=20
group up here agreed or supported it. We normally take extra O2 & =
HE=20
in "K" on the boat or in trailor for rode trips. Such as our visit to FL =
over=20
the past two years. One of the guys has a portable =
haskel.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D832233911-20122001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D832233911-20122001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>So you=20
comment of "You just do not get it. You guys are are hopeless. ..." is =
incorrect=20
and inappropriate.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Trey=20
[mailto:trey@ne*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 20, 2001 =
6:44=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> David B. Widen; Andy@Sc*.AS*;=20
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 100% Helium in Scuba=20
Cylinders?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN =
class=3D877553611-20122001>Still=20
extremely;y stupid and bullshit. Tell me what 200 mix you can top off =
in=20
doubles with an 80 of helium at 2200. Don't tell me you had a haskel =
and were=20
still stupid enough to put helium in an improperly marked scuba tank. =
The best=20
you could get would be 17 or 18 percent. Sound familiar? This is what =
I call=20
"STROKE MIX", for morons who do not understand helium in diving. =
At 200=20
feet, this is useless, and 17% is not the right mix for any dive, nor =
does it=20
give any of the benefits of helium in the proper percentages, which =
needs to=20
be at least 30 for diving ( over 100 feet) and 25 for shallow deco=20
bottles.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
class=3D877553611-20122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN =
class=3D877553611-20122001>You just do=20
not get it. You guys are hopeless. This is why I keep anyone away from =
me who=20
thinks this way ( convoluted nonsensical crap ).=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> David B.
Widen=20
[mailto:dwiden@ho*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 20,
2001 =
4:47=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Trey'; 'David B. Widen'; Andy@Sc*.AS*;=20
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 100% Helium in
Scuba=20
Cylinders?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D985184109-20122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>George</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D985184109-20122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D985184109-20122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>One time it was some of the probably more the NE splash. =
The other=20
time was SC equalizes for good HE percentage on a 200 fsw set of =
dives. I do=20
not remember there target percentages, but it was more than a =
splash. Both=20
times the tanks were well marks to avoid =
confusion.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D985184109-20122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D985184109-20122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>David</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Trey=20
[mailto:trey@ne*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 19, =
2001 9:19=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> David B. Widen; Andy@Sc*.AS*;=20
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 100% Helium in
Scuba =
Cylinders?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN =
class=3D342371702-20122001>Dave,=20
what where they,. double spare airs? Or are we talking the NE =
splash of=20
helium and I am a trimix diver mix?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> David B. =
Widen=20
[mailto:dwiden@ho*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 17, =
2001 3:48=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Andy@Sc*.AS*;=20
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 100% Helium in =
Scuba=20
Cylinders?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D961294020-17122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Andy</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D961294020-17122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D961294020-17122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>The times that I have seen people put 100% HE in scuba =
tanks, as=20
a fill, was to us it to equalize back into double for remixing =
on boat=20
expedition where transporting and use "K" of HE would not be=20
appropriate. This has been done by small buddy teams trying to =
be self=20
sufficient. This is another way of premixing and managing gas on =
multiple day and multiple dives yet managing weight and=20
equipment.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D961294020-17122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D961294020-17122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>I have not nor has others in the VB Tech used this =
method to=20
date, but have see other use it when visiting =
us.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D961294020-17122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D961294020-17122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>David</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Andy =
Schmidt=20
[mailto:Andy_Schmidt@HM*.co*]<B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>Andy@Sc*.AS*<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 17,
2001 =
1:20=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B>
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
100% Helium=20
in Scuba Cylinders?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Trebuchet MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D715001118-17122001>Hi,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Trebuchet MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D715001118-17122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Trebuchet MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D715001118-17122001>educate me =
please:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Trebuchet MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D715001118-17122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Trebuchet MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D715001118-17122001><FONT color=3D#008080>>> =
<FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>died as a result of =
breathing 100%=20
helium <<</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#008080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D715001118-17122001><FONT
face=3D"Trebuchet =
MS" size=3D2>I=20
understand the political and human-error discussion of this=20
unfortunate accident - but what's the operational purpose =
to EVER=20
fill and carry a 100% He scuba cylinder ANYWHERE. What =
am I=20
missing? I understand 100% He in designated storage =
bottles -=20
and I can see it being used in CCRs - but why even FILL 100% =
He=20
in cylinders that are designated for Scuba use?=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D715001118-17122001><FONT
face=3D"Trebuchet =
MS"=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Trebuchet MS" size=3D2>Best=20
Regards<BR><B><I></I></B></FONT><B><I></I></B><
B><I><FONT =
face=3DGeorgia=20
color=3D#000080>Andy =
Schmidt</FONT></I></B><I><BR></I><BR><FONT=20
face=3D"Lucida Console" size=3D1>Phone: +1 201 934-3414 =
x20=20
(Business)<BR>Fax: +1 201 934-9206</FONT> =
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Lucida Console" =
size=3D1></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D715001118-17122001><FONT face=3D"Lucida =
Console"=20
color=3D#ff0000 size=3D1>PS: Techdiver list disclaimer - =
please conserve=20
bandwidth. The usual slander and personal attacks should be =
sent=20
directly to my email address. I promise they will have =
the same=20
effect.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Chuck =
Noe=20
[mailto:chucknoe@ca*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, =
December 17,=20
2001 11:30 AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
quest@gu*.co*; Techdiver; Houston
Cavers<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
Re: DIR=20
Fatalities<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>George Irvine wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"><PRE>I can keep turning it up
and turning it up, and don't give a shit about his family or anyone =
else. He
lied to me and the team, made me look like an asshole</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><BR>So George is worried that Jonathan's terrible mistake =
and=20
death "made (him) look like an asshole". That's really a sad =
comment.=20
<P>This shouldn't reflect on him or the WKPP. Jonathan was =
not=20
participating in a WKPP event at the time of his death.=20
<P>He clearly violated DIR standards and died as a result of =
breathing 100% helium from what he thought was an O2 deco =
cylinder.=20
<P>Others should KNOW this so that his mistake will not be =
repeated.=20
<P>1) Do not put helium in bottles indiscriminately. <BR>2) =
Do not=20
use bottles that are not marked properly. <BR>3) Analyze =
everything=20
(even oxygen). <BR>4) Do not rush to resume diving following =
a=20
serious illness. <BR>5) Do not rush to do ANY dive. Take =
your time;=20
be methodical.=20
<P>George can call me any name he prefers, but he cannot =
change the=20
cause and outcome of this tragic accident. I do know that =
Jonathan=20
would have wanted the truth to be known.=20
<P>Chuck <BR> <BR> <BR>
<BR> =20
=
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC
KQUOTE></BL=
OCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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