Does your shop offer certification courses for new divers ??

If so, which agency and with what gear??

        Charlie Allen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicolai M. Tousaint" <nick@ak*.co*>
To: "Steve Schultz" <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>
Cc: "Steve Schultz" <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>; "terry
michael" <OEA51@go*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>;
<cavers@ca*.co*>; <quest@gu*.co*>
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 12:06 PM
Subject: RE: Full DIR Center, was RE: Re: [cavers] RE: GI and SS
to Merge


> Not because the dumb guy wants a set of redundant 100lb bungee
wings, a pair
> of steel beauchat 190´s for doubles with a shorty 3mm suit, leg
scooters and
> a closed circuit rb for back up, I will sell it to him, even if
his buy help
> my business, cause he is going to get hurt. That´s what I´m
saying.
>
> I would NOT screw my customers to make money, that´s BS, if you
come here
> you´ll get the real thing, don´t you realize that if you fool
somebody he
> would not trust you ever again.
>
> You can dive with however you want, in whichever configuration
or gear, or
> even sell them your old stroke gear too, is your choice. (
doesn´t mean you
> shouldn´t feel guilty about it )
>
> I don´t want to waste my time, with who don´t care or don´t
wants to listen
> and jeopardized the whole team safety in any dive I do, if they
are willing
> to learn, then is NO problem, for either of us.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Schultz <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>
> To: Nicolai M. Tousaint <nick@ak*.co*>
> Cc: Steve Schultz <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>; terry
michael
> <OEA51@go*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; <cavers@ca*.co*>;
> <quest@gu*.co*>
> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 12:26 PM
> Subject: Re: Full DIR Center, was RE: Re: [cavers] RE: GI and
SS to Merge
>
>
> >
> > Dude, what are you talking about?
> >
> > Who said anything about poor instruction?  There is no poor
instruction
> going on.  Stick to the facts.
> >
> > Some people will never DIR.  Some people will never own a
great piece of
> gear.
> >
> > When one of these guys walks into a shop and turns away
advice from a GUE
> instructor, why should the shop not sell the guy the
traditional OW gear
> that he insists he wants.  It's helping to keep the shop in
business.  The
> guy is going to throw money at another shop that is carrying
the gear he
> wants.
> >
> > You say:
> > "No stroke divers and gear will be welcome, as I won4t dive
with
> > them, I will teach exclusively GUE training only  for the
serious diver
> > wanting to put the required effort, we are not trying to
pretend we are
> > committed, as we really believed that the DIR system is the
safest way to
> > go."
> >
> > I think that is somewhat of a poor attitude.  I take
inexperienced divers
> diving all the time.  Almost none of them know what they're
doing, and they
> never will without a little mentoring.  Maybe if these divers
see a DIR
> diver put on the gear quickly and easily, then dive with
perfect buoyancy,
> and just have an all round fun day, they will be inclined to
take a
> Fundamentals course and buy some Halcyon gear.  Wow, more
profit your DIR
> Akumel shop.  You can serve the DIR community better.
> >
> > I'll say it again:
> > If someone is never going to DIR, and turns down the shop's
advice, then I
> say it's fair game to hose them by selling the gear they want.
Are they
> really getting hosed if they get the gear they want?
> >
> > It's a win-win situation.
> >
> > ss
> >
> > On Sat, 10 Nov 2001, Nicolai M. Tousaint wrote:
> >
> > > So maybe they can teach stroke diving too, as long as they
teach you a
> good
> > > class ?
> > > let them dive with that gear in the same boat , as long you
are not
> there ?
> > >
> > > If you are really committed to the DIR philosophy, you are
all the way,
> > >
> > > Actually GUE and Halcyon are sacrificing profit for quality
training and
> > > equipment, and you will not find stroke gear that sells
there or a cheap
> > > class with many c-cards included, when will the dive shops
committed to
> DIR
> > > diving as well ?
> > >
> > > By the way, if you come diving with us in the new Akumal
DIR Center, in
> the
> > > Yucatan wonderland, expect no stroke gear for sell rent or
use in the
> > > premises, as well ONLY custom DIR diving programs will be
available ( to
> all
> > > levels ), No stroke divers and gear will be welcome, as I
won4t dive
> with
> > > them, I will teach exclusively GUE training only  for the
serious diver
> > > wanting to put the required effort, we are not trying to
pretend we are
> > > committed, as we really believed that the DIR system is the
safest way
> to
> > > go.
> > >
> > > best
> > > Nicolai M. Toussaint
> > > Akumal DIR Center
> > > www.gue.com
> > > Quality Dive Instruction, in Mexico4s cave country, the
best in the
> world.
> > > www.halcyon.net
> > > DIR equipment repairs, sales, maintenance
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Steve Schultz <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>
> > > To: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
> > > Cc: Gertje <gert.je@wo*.nl*>; <ScottBonis@ao*.co*>;
> > > <jimholcomb@x-*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>;
> <cavers@ca*.co*>;
> > > <quest@gu*.co*>
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 11:19 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: [cavers] RE: GI and SS to Merge
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > My favourite DIR shop is set up with a Halcyon wall, and
a non-Halcyon
> > > wall.
> > > >
> > > > On the Halcyon wall, you find, all the good stuff like
the wings,
> > > harness/BP, reels, spools, liftbags, etc.  On the
non-Halcyon wall,
> there is
> > > an array of ridiculous stuff like snorkels, tank-bangers,
and various
> > > gadget-type stuff that is commonly found in most PADI OW
classes.
> > > >
> > > > The Halcyon gear often sells itself on its own merit,
however some
> > > customers come in wanting a standard OW BC like they
learned on, or that
> > > their instructor used, or simply because it is cheaper.
The staff will
> > > recommend Halcyon and take the time answer any questions
and give
> complete
> > > explanations.  There are however some customers that cannot
be swayed,
> and
> > > will end up buying half-a-dozen tank bangers so that they
can signal
> their
> > > buddy the same way the cool PADI divemaster did on the
boat.
> > > >
> > > > I do not frown on the dive shop for selling this kind of
gear.  This
> is
> > > one dive shop that has bent over backwards for me.  There
aren't many
> shops
> > > that will let me mix my own gas, fix my own gear, borrow
gear or tools,
> and
> > > call me at home if there is a last minute chance to get
diving on a
> remote
> > > wreck that I'd been trying unsuccessfully to dive for a
couple months.
> If
> > > selling stroke gear keeps a shop like this in business,
then I say "sell
> > > more stroke gear".
> > > >
> > > > DIR is NOT for everybody.  If a diver has made up their
mind to buy a
> > > Sherwood BC, then they will go out and find it.  I just
hope they find
> it at
> > > my local DIR shop to keep the good times a rollin'
> > > >
> > > > ss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 9 Nov 2001, terry michael wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Tankboots are necessary for pool dives. As for
rationalizing selling
> or
> > > stocking inferior dive equipment "products" being "OK" to
make a buck.
> > > That's complete stroke bullshit in my opinion. I'd
personally rather
> find
> > > another line of work then betray principles that I believe
in.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: "Gertje"<gert.je@wo*.nl*>
> > > > > To: ScottBonis@ao*.co*, jimholcomb@x-*.co*,
> techdiver@aquanaut.com,
> > > cavers@ca*.co*, quest@gu*.co*
> > > > > Date: Fri Nov 09 03:19:59 PST 2001
> > > > > Subject: Re: [cavers] RE: GI and SS to Merge
> > > > >
> > > > > >Scott,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Never been at Brownies, have you?
> > > > > >[they even sell tankboots!!!!!!!! ;-) ]
> > > > > >If there is ONE shop that's supposed to DIR, it's
them. Two
> > > GUE-instructors
> > > > > >behind the counter, several GUE courses a year given.
And EVEN THEY
> > > have to
> > > > > >sell strokegear to keep paying the bills.
> > > > > >DIR won't feed you, cashflow does!
> > > > > >By selling the shit and making money out of it, they
can develop
> new
> > > > > >DIR-gear and keep our show on the road.
> > > > > >They only can ADVISE the people that come in, to DIR.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >If you go to a hardwarestore for a tool, and they only
sell a brand
> you
> > > have
> > > > > >never heard of, and looks 'strangely differend' from
the tool you
> > > learned to
> > > > > >work with in class, what would YOU do? I would go to
another shop
> that
> > > gives
> > > > > >me a choice. I MIGHT buy the 'strange' looking tool,
but only after
> I
> > > had a
> > > > > >chance to listen to the salesrep. and compare.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Gertjan
> > > > > >[the Netherlands]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Hi Jim,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I am sending this message to three separate lists as
your
> message, to
> > > > > >which I
> > > > > >> am replying, was sent to these three same lists.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Jim, I guess that your message explains a major
portion of the
> > > difference
> > > > > >> between you and me.  You see I could never supply
gear to anyone
> that
> > > I
> > > > > >> thought was not the proper gear for that person to
be using in
> any
> > > given
> > > > > >> situation.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Your boast of << I sold tons of bullshit stroke gear
.... <snip>
> .....
> > > folks
> > > > > >> have got to sell stuff to pay the bills. You going
to make my
> house
> > > > > >payment
> > > > > >> while I sit on my ass and be a purist? >> , and the
rest of your
> > > message
> > > > > >> indicating to me that you knew that what you were
selling was not
> > > > > >acceptable
> > > > > >> gear at the time you sold it, is so repulsive that I
find it hard
> to
> > > > > >contain
> > > > > >> my disgust for your actions.  It is people like you,
using the
> excuse
> > > that
> > > > > >"I
> > > > > >> need to make a living," that are a detriment to the
scuba diving
> > > industry
> > > > > >and
> > > > > >> IMHO, just possibly the cause of various scuba
accidents.  "Farm
> > > animal
> > > > > >> stupid" is too kind for you because you knew that
what you were
> doing
> > > was
> > > > > >> wrong at the time you were doing it.  Make a living
some other
> way,
> > > but
> > > > > >not
> > > > > >> by knowingly placing divers in potentially
unacceptably dangerous
> > > > > >> predicaments.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> To me, there is no reason to ever supply a diver
with
> unacceptable
> > > > > >equipment
> > > > > >> for him or her to use in any given situation.
Either supply
> > > acceptable
> > > > > >gear
> > > > > >> or inform the diver that the proposed diving cannot
be
> accomplished
> > > safely
> > > > > >> with the other gear that you have presently for
sale.  And then
> offer
> > > to
> > > > > >help
> > > > > >> get (special order, alternate supplier, more
expensive initially
> but
> > > > > >second
> > > > > >> hand, etc.) alternative acceptable gear to satisfy
the diver's
> needs.
> > > > > >This
> > > > > >> is known as professionalism and any other course of
action is,
> IMHO
> > > > > >grossly
> > > > > >> irresponsible if not downright criminal.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I am certainly glad that your message is in the past
tense << ...
> > > until a
> > > > > >> couple weeks ago, I ran a dive shop in Atlanta. >>,
as I'd rather
> not
> > > need
> > > > > >to
> > > > > >> think about your still supplying unacceptable
equipment to
> divers.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> And you profess to support the DIR philosophy???  Is
that "use
> > > acceptable
> > > > > >> equipment unless that doesn't sell and then Jim
Holcomb can make
> a
> > > little
> > > > > >> more money by having someone buy unacceptable
equipment"?  Just
> whom
> > > do
> > > > > >you
> > > > > >> think you're kidding?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> But then, this is just one instructor's opinion.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Take care and dive safe,       Scott
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Some weeks it's just not worth the effort to gnaw
through the
> > > restraints
> > > > > >and
> > > > > >> scramble up out of the pit.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In a message dated 11/7/01 7:59:18 PM,
jimholcomb@x-*.co*
> > > writes:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> << Well, in a fucked up kind of way, I agree. But
wouldn't it be
> a
> > > whole
> > > > > >lot
> > > > > >> more hypocritical to sell a stroke "stroke" gear.
Up until a
> couple
> > > weeks
> > > > > >> ago, I ran a dive shop in Atlanta.  I sold tons of
bullshit
> stroke
> > > gear to
> > > > > >> folks.  If you got to sell something to somebody to
pay the bills
> it
> > > would
> > > > > >> probably be better to sell them gear oriented toward
the DIR
> > > philosophy as
> > > > > >> opposed to some of that shit I sold.  My point
being, folks have
> got
> > > to
> > > > > >> sell stuff to pay the bills. You going to make my
house payment
> while
> > > I
> > > > > >sit
> > > > > >> on my ass and be a purist? Better to sell DIR stuff
to strokes
> than
> > > stroke
> > > > > >> shit to strokes. Make any sense?????
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Jim Holcomb >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
>
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