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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Gary <p> I agree with you on most points except your last one. It is the instructor, not the agency. Neither of the two= MSDTs you talk about were practising what they preach. PADI has no need to make understanding basic decompression theory an additional crite= ria for the rating of MSDT. These two guys were diving beyond their tra= ining. Unless either of them were trained by a tech agency, they were beyond wha= t they had been taught (which includes following the Recreational Dive Tabl= es). If they had tech training, then it's that agency that's to blame (please don't say they were tec-rec). <p> I'm not saying that PADI is perfect. I know a few incredibly incompetent instructors myself. That being said, teaching a person to dive to 30 feet in the carribean isn't that hard.&nb= sp; Students are taught that if they enter an environment different than the one they were trained in, they should get an orientation dive with a loca= l divemaster or instructor. Probably due to attitudes like the ones on this list, people think that it's only a money-grab. While I agree tha= t it is a bit of a money grab, there is also some sense in the madness.&nbs= p; You can't expect every instructor to have dove in every conceivable set of circumstances. I dive and teach in cold water with limited visib= ility relative to more tropical locales. However, I don't have a lot of experience in currents, and so I would never try and teach a student how to drift dive. By recommending that students get oriented in new environments, you can ensure that they get taught by people who have expe= rience in that area. Anyhow, most students will probably never venture too= far from the conditions in which they were trained. PADI also advoc= ates that students take a tuneup if they haven't been diving for a while. <p> There are many bad things about PADI, not the least= of which is (what I perceive as) the lax standards for IDC admission.&nbs= p; However, I think that a good instructor from PADI is as good as an instru= ctor from any other RSTC training program. A bad instructor from PADI is as bad as any other instructor. If someone has hard stats that more PADI divers are getting injured than divers from other training agen= cies, I think PADI would be very interested to hear it, as would I. <p> I'm sure I'll get some flames on this, but I would be interested in rational discussion. I think that while there are a lot of bad areas within PADI, they are no worse than any other agency on the market (GUE does seem to be changing things though...). <p> All that being said, don't get me started on Tec-Re= c. <p>Ben <p>Gary Hagland wrote: <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE> <span = class=3D320252111-15032001><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000FF"><= font size=3D-1>Adam,</font></font></font></span><span class=3D320252111-1= 5032001><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000FF"><font size=3D-1>Have= been watching your posts and understand your feelings about PADI. I was certified as an instructor by that agency in 1978 when there was an entirely different ethos to their approach to dive training. We took great pride in creating competent divers. Those instructors who took short cuts, rushed classes, and certified marginal students were= looked upon as scum. Unfortunately, because of their business based= system, they are now the norm. More unfortunately, most of those same individuals think they're doing a terrific job because they know no better. They're encapsulated in PADI propaganda. However, mos= t of them one day wake up and discover that their efforts outpace the rewar= ds. The return on investment sucks. Economically, it doesn't make sense= to be a dive instructor, especially a incompetent one. They quit.&n= bsp; That's a blessing for the dive community, but their system seems to be able to churn out more of the same. I know some good PADI Instructo= rs, but the active ones of my acquaintance have diminished to three. </f= ont></font></font></span><span = class=3D320252111-15032001></span><span = class=3D320252111-15032001><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000FF"><= font size=3D-1>Since the beginning of the year here on Okinawa, there have been two confirmed cases of DCS among the American military community. Both were PADI Master Scuba Diver Trainers. One went for a five mile run after com= pleting a dive to 190 FSW. The other spent 30 minutes trying to dislodge a porthole from a U.S. ship sunk during the battle here at 146 FSW, and which should probably be considered a war grave since 60 sailors are stil= l aboard, and ran out of air before he could make his first stop at 40 feet= =2E After 45 minutes he went back to the wreck. During his ascent, he began to feel pain between his 20 and 10 foot stops. Perhaps if PAD= I made understanding basic decompression theory an additional criteria for the rating of MSDT, we would have fewer accidents and better training by that agency's instructors. </font></font></font></span><span = class=3D320252111-15032001></span><span class=3D320252111-15032001><font = face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000FF"><font size=3D-1>The mantra that it's the instructor not the agency is passé.</font></f= ont></font></span><span class=3D320252111-15032001><font face=3D"Arial"><= font color=3D"#0000FF"><font size=3D-1>Gary Hagland</font></font></font></span><span = class=3D320252111-15032001><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000FF"><= font size=3D-1>Okinawa, Japan</font></font></font></span> <blockquote> <div class=3D"OutlookMessageHeader" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Tahoma"><fo= nt size=3D-1>-----Original Message-----</font></font> <br><font face=3D"Tahoma"><font size=3D-1><b>From:</b> Adam [<A HREF=3D"m= ailto:deepwrecks@ya*.co*">mailto:deepwrecks@yahoo.com</A>]</font></font = > <br><font face=3D"Tahoma"><font size=3D-1><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 15= , 2001 1:52 AM</font></font> <br><font face=3D"Tahoma"><font size=3D-1><b>To:</b> William Anzueto</fon= t></font> <br><font face=3D"Tahoma"><font size=3D-1><b>Cc:</b> techdiver@aquanaut.c= om</font></font> <br><font face=3D"Tahoma"><font size=3D-1><b>Subject:</b> Re: WARNING - C= offee Alert</font></font> <br> </div> <span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">When PADI started they where= non profit organization. I am not against PADI making money. I stand agai= nst PADI=92s bullshit to lower the standards to produce instructors and sell impressive but worthless titles. They are certifying instructors regardle= ss of their skills and teaching ability to gain market share.<span = style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"></span>Because PADI believes more instructors produce more divers. More divers mean more= money. Do you know instructor candidates will be marked down if they fail= to promote up coming classes. (Basket weaving or perhaps Pumpkin Carving Specialty any one) As I said again and again there are great instructors out there. The ultimate insult to all good instructors regardless of agen= cy who worked hard and care about quality, safety of their students is to be put in to the same class as these morons. Because they happened to sha= re the same Master Instructor Trainer title. Difference is one earned the title and the other bought it. ;-)<?xml:namespace prefix =3D o ns =3D = "<A HREF=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office">urn:schemas-microsof= t-com:office:office</A>" /><o:p></o:p></span> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span = style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-s= ize: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span = style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-s= ize: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">Adam<span = style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"></span><o:p></o:p></span> <p><b><i>William Anzueto <willanz@ms*.co*></i></b> wrote: <br>Adam, <p>Interesting that you should post this.... <br>I wonder what kind of business you are in...do they make money by pro= viding a service or material? That's what makes the world go round. So yes PADI is in for making money...and now the rest of the agencies are cachting up. <p>My training: <br>PADI Instructor. <br>GUE Cave 1 and doing Cave 2 next month. <br>My opinion on PADI....agency just makes the outline....the instructor= makes a big difference. <br>I train my courses since GUE Cave 1 very differently. <br>Dive soon, <br>William <br>"Cave Country , FL" <br> <p> <hr SIZE=3D1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b> <br><a href=3D"http://auctions.yahoo.com">Yahoo! Auctions</a> - Buy the t= hings you want at great prices!</blockquote> </blockquote> </html> -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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