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Thomas,
Nice try.
>>> If you are serious about what to do on dive trips that go bad, take an
EMT
> class.<snip> .
>
> Barring that take at least a CPR class and ask the instructors about your
> specific situations.
Been in the emergency medical field for 7+ years. NREMT-P, DMT, a bunch
of other stuff I don't want to have to explain. Not only that, I _taught_ it
also.
I am not working as a paramedic, so I am not bound by lowest-common
denominator protocols, designed to simplify decision-making processes at the
cost of removing options.
One of Murphy's Laws is : "If it's stupid, but it works, it isn't
stupid....". I would much rather hear from an anesthesiologist who confirms
this procedure works, then from EMTs who are relying on formulaic training &
standing protocols they have received, and are legally bound by.
If in case you didn't know, anesthesiologists are pretty well-read on
the whole ventilation subject.
I am not concerned with what looks nice, or what is approved by local
EMS protocols, or a CPR class (fer chrissake!). I am concerned with what
works in real life, and my question has been courteously answered by a
subject-matter expert.
This technique is simply one I will add to my bag of tricks, hoping I'll
never need to do it, but aware of it should the need occur.
If I am on shore, and have proper recussitive equipment, will I use the
reg? Of course not! And I don't believe _anyone_ is saying to do that. If
the reg is all I have, maybe I'm in the water, still swimming with the
casualty, do you want me to just let him stay hypoxic & maybe apneic, or
ventilate him?
Rich L
NB- my intent in the above is not to disparage EMTs or EMT-Ps, but to point
out that they function under different rules, and under a different set of
circumstances, than in these hypothetical examples.
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas A. Easop <tomeasop@mi*.co*>
To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: Experiment: Purge inflating
> Rich:
>
> Lungs are not condoms or balloons AND we are not highly trained medical
doctors
> in the comfort and control of an operating room.
>
> Best thing to do if you want to use the reg for resuscitation: become an
> anesthesilogist and do it in the OR.
>
> If you are serious about what to do on dive trips that go bad, take an EMT
> class. I think they are about $150.00 in New York, and last about 100 -
110
> hours. You can then also do other things, like work or volunteer as an EMT
so
> you'll have experience.
>
> Barring that take at least a CPR class and ask the instructors about your
> specific situations.
>
> Or get some EMT's or Paramedics to come out on dives with you, the same
way you
> round up support divers for the big excursions.
>
> Tom
>
> Rich Lesperance wrote:
>
> > Karen,
> >
> > The lungs are not a balloon, nor are they a condom.
> >
> > If the human lungs were constructed of latex, your analogy might hold.
> > Sometimes, however, analogies fail, and we must rely on experience.
> >
> > So here I am, a humble student of diving, trying to figure out what is
the
> > safest and most effective method. On one hand, I have your analogy of
> > blowing up condoms with your reg. On the other hand, I have the
experience
> > of an anesthesiologist who actually did this on a patient, and reported
it
> > worked fine.
> >
> > So, I wonder which answer I'll choose?
> >
> > Rich L
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Karen Nakamura <karen@gp*.co*>
> > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 7:33 PM
> > Subject: Experiment: Purge inflating
> >
> > > Folks -
> > >
> > > There's been a lot of medical evidence against purge inflating an
> > > unconcious, non-breathing drown victim. The proponents of this
dangerous
> > > practice haven't presented any evidence to the contrary. Nonetheless,
> > there
> > > are still some folks who think it's both safe and practical.
> > >
> > > Here's an experiment to try in the safety of your own home. You will
need:
> > >
> > > * Condom or large-mouth balloon
> > > * Scuba regulator and tank (air is fine)
> > >
> > > Blow the condom/balloon up once or twice with your own breaths. Notice
the
> > > size and shape. The condom will inflate so that it's almost balloon
shaped
> > > when you've given it a good full breath.
> > >
> > > Now put the mouth of the condom over your regulator's mouthpiece. Now,
try
> > > to inflate the condom. If you don't have your hand over the regulator
> > vents,
> > > the condom will become ... well ... semi-erect, but it won't balloon
up to
> > > full lung size since there isn't sufficient pressure. In order to get
> > > sufficient pressure, you have to close the mouthpiece vents, but this
is
> > > much more difficult than it appears and it's hard to get enough
coverage
> > > over the vents at the same time as applying just the right amount of
> > > pressure to the purge valve.
> > >
> > > You'll get one of two results most of the time: an underinflated
condom
> > > (lung) or overinflated, burst condom (lung).
> > >
> > > Now imagine trying to do this at the same pace as you'd be giving
rescue
> > > breaths. Try imagine doing this while towing someone in the water. It
just
> > > isn't very practical either in or out of the water.
> > >
> > > This isn't even the full picture, in real life you'd also have to
worry
> > about:
> > > * Making sure the mouthpiece seal is secure
> > > * Making sure the victim's airway is open and clear
> > > * Lung inflations aren't as visible as a condom inflating
> > >
> > > Conclusion: take a rescue/CPR/O2 course and stick to what you know.
> > > --
> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >
> > --
> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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>
>
>
> --
> The Guns and Armour of Scapa Flow Scotland
> 1998 Underwater Photographic Survey of Historic Wrecks
> http://www.gunsofscapa.demon.co.uk/
>
>
> --
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