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--- Karen Nakamura <karen@gp*.co*> wrote: > Folks - > > There's been a lot of medical evidence against purge > inflating an > unconcious, non-breathing drown victim. The > proponents of this dangerous > practice haven't presented any evidence to the > contrary. Nonetheless, there > are still some folks who think it's both safe and > practical. > Karen, 1. Please provide 1 or 2 examples of this medical evidence against that using a demand valve in a +ve P mode on an unconscious victim. 2. Plz indicate why it is impractical on dry land or boat (say hard surface) using a demand valve. > Here's an experiment to try in the safety of your > own home. You will need: > > * Condom or large-mouth balloon > * Scuba regulator and tank (air is fine) > If U thnk lungs R like condoms, I have very little else to say to U. Suggest picking up a book on respiratory physiol & also one on anatomy. Last I looked neither the material they were made of nor their structures were remotely similar. > Blow the condom/balloon up once or twice with your > own breaths. Notice the > size and shape. The condom will inflate so that it's > almost balloon shaped > when you've given it a good full breath. > > Now put the mouth of the condom over your > regulator's mouthpiece. Now, try > to inflate the condom. If you don't have your hand > over the regulator vents, > the condom will become ... well ... semi-erect, but > it won't balloon up to > full lung size since there isn't sufficient > pressure. As I indicated in an earlier post one has to clarify the tool being used. A reg used in the +ve P mode in water appears impractical for +ve P ventilation of an unconscious victim. A demand valve however is eminently practical on 'dry land' for that same purpose. >In order to get > sufficient pressure, you have to close the > mouthpiece vents, but this is > much more difficult than it appears and it's hard to > get enough coverage > over the vents at the same time as applying just the > right amount of > pressure to the purge valve. > > You'll get one of two results most of the time: an > underinflated condom > (lung) or overinflated, burst condom (lung). Hard to C the burst if total sealing is not possible w/ a reg. > Now imagine trying to do this at the same pace as > you'd be giving rescue > breaths. Try imagine doing this while towing someone > in the water. It just > isn't very practical either in or out of the water. Hey we teach & use mouth to snorkle. Again each ResQ is unique & #ous factors will determine what is the most effective method to B applied. @ times twoing w/o resuscitaion may B better. Other resQs call for resuscitation. Again do not throw in water resus using a scuba reg into the same basket as the demand valve used in a +ve P mode. > This isn't even the full picture, in real life you'd > also have to worry about: > * Making sure the mouthpiece seal is secure > * Making sure the victim's airway is open and > clear > * Lung inflations aren't as visible as a condom > inflating If U R unable to do those don't parade as a resQer > > Conclusion: take a rescue/CPR/O2 course and stick to > what you know. How about U taking an up to date one? Where do U live? I may B able to suggest a few that teach +ve P ventilation. So instead of being pompous about it, how about some reserach - talk to DAN maybe - even as conservative as they R, they recognize the value of +ve P ventilation. using a demand valve. Safe bubbles Esat Atikkan > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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