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Jess, if you and I are diving, and we need to do a longer bottom time, do we take stages, or do we convert our helium storage bottles to doubles and use them. I forgot? If you or I hit turn, do we call the dive or do we just keep diving until one of us runs out of gas ? I forgot on that one , too? If you and I did not actually do the dives we do, would it be ok for us to get on techdiver and lie about it, and make up all kinds of stories ( shark attack) and bullshit excuses about why we would not seem to know anything about what were discussing? Jess Armantrout wrote: > > see option 1 > > -----Original Message----- > From: bigvon@be*.ne* <bigvon@be*.ne*> > To: Jess Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*> > Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Date: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 3:12 PM > Subject: Re: its about going deep george > > >Jess That's great for you. Realistically how many of the multitude of tech > >divers out there breath a .25 on a swimming dive with stages? One can be > fit for > >diving with moderate regular exercise and does not have to maintain an > Olympic > >workout to dive.What if your buddy's rate was more than your own? How do > you > >calculate your safety? > >Von > > > >Jess Armantrout wrote: > > > >> I'm not a hoove. That is how I am safe. I run 40 miles a week, bike 100 > >> and swim 6. My breathing rate in warm salty water on weenie dives like > this > >> is less than .25, and the student's was much better than that. (We did > 100 > >> minutes at 50 on a night dive and she used 1300 psi out of an 80...what's > >> that, .13?). In a cave with steels and the additional task loading, my > rate > >> sky rockets to around .33, but that is scary diving. Also, we know how > to > >> deco, and don't spend all day. > >> > >> As I have mentioned to you previously, that you can not do these dives > does > >> not mean they can not be done safely. > >> > >> Jess > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: bigvon@be*.ne* <bigvon@be*.ne*> > >> To: Jess Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>; techdiver@aquanaut.com > >> <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > >> Date: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 1:44 PM > >> Subject: Re: its about going deep george > >> > >> >Out of curiosity what was your mix and quantify for bottom gas and deco > >> gas? > >> >At 30 min there is significant deco at 300 feet. > >> >How do you bring enough gas to be safe? > >> > > >> >I just got back from Cayman and the temp was around 79 to 80 on the > bottom. > >> >I would be in a sweat box in a dry suit . > >> > > >> >Bill > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >Jess Armantrout wrote: > >> > > >> >> Von, > >> >> you're grasping, buddy. I taught a trimix course in Cayman, several > >> years > >> >> ago, back when nitrox wasn't even legal there. We did 300's for 25 to > 30 > >> >> all week long. Ironically, my student was the safety officer for the > >> CIWA, > >> >> the organization banning Nitrox in Cayman. Since neither of us were > >> hooves, > >> >> we dove twin 80's and 40's for deco gas. We were swimming. We were > >> diving > >> >> wet. I dove a Halcyon 18 pound set of wings and no weight. > >> >> > >> >> WHAT'S THE BIG FUCKING DEAL!!!!????!!!!! > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: bigvon@be*.ne* <bigvon@be*.ne*> > >> >> To: kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*> > >> >> Cc: gordonjr <jrgordonsenior@em*.ms*.co*>; techdiver@aquanaut.com > >> >> <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > >> >> Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 11:23 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: its about going deep george > >> >> > >> >> >Obviously George you have never made a deep dive in the summer in the > >> >> Caribbean > >> >> >or you would understand. > >> >> >You still have not posted your tank/gas configuration diving wet > w/out > >> >> scooter at > >> >> >300 much less 350, for 25 to 30 min.. > >> >> >What are you so afraid of? > >> >> >That there is an instant when DIR might not be exactly as the great > >> George > >> >> >Grapevine dictates? > >> >> >DIR does work in most instances. However there might, just might be > an > >> >> >alternative that is safer for the longer exposures at depth. i.e. > >> redundant > >> >> bc' > >> >> >for gas availability. > >> >> >By the way, studies have shown that one long exposure may be safer > than > >> two > >> >> >shorter ones. > >> >> >Von > >> >> >kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Bill, you are not only dangerous ,you are an outright liar. There > is > >> no > >> >> >> ocean on this planet where the water at "350" is warm. The > Britannic > >> is > >> >> >> cold as would be expected at depth and warm at the surface as would > be > >> >> >> expected in the Mediteranean. Your original argument was that the > Gulf > >> >> >> is warm at the surface. The fact is you have no justification for > >> >> >> dangerous stupidity. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> An unbalanced rig is open ocean the trademeark of a no-plan > >> dillatante. > >> >> >> This is so simple, and you do not get it. Convoluted stupidity to > >> offset > >> >> >> self-inflicted risk is not the answer. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I will keep offsetting your nonsense and pointing out how wrong you > >> are. > >> >> >> The difference betwen you and the guys who did the Britannic is the > >> >> >> diffrence between the real thing and bullshit. Jarrod is the real > >> thing, > >> >> >> you are a yapping pretender. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Your other argument is that we do not "know wreck diving". Well, > Big > >> >> >> Time, that is obviously not the case, and the fact is that it makes > no > >> >> >> difference where the dive is, our methods are used by the > successful > >> >> >> divers, the bullshit is what the bullshitters use. You are in the > >> latter > >> >> >> category. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> bigvon@be*.ne* wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Like I said before George you are a master of misdirection. The > >> >> discussion > >> >> >> > was about deep warm water diving with steels without the use of a > >> >> scooter.. > >> >> >> > Not cold Britannic water with drysuits and scooters. > >> >> >> > You still did not answer the question tough guy and I doubt you > ever > >> >> will. > >> >> >> > Von > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > Von, why don't you stop by GUE and straighten Jarrod out. I > tried > >> to > >> >> >> > > tell him that diving the Britannic in a drysuit was not the Von > >> >> method, > >> >> >> > > and that since he was beyond 300, he should have had steels and > a > >> >> >> > > wetsuit, a backwards bc, two bottom timers in case his arm got > bit > >> >> off > >> >> >> > > by a shark, etc. > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > Maybe you can come to a WKPP dive and tell me how to do more > than > >> a > >> >> >> > > "bounce" dive, since I have very little experience with the > kind > >> of > >> >> big > >> >> >> > > bottom times you are doing, and show me about "exploring" and > what > >> I > >> >> >> > > need to do in the way of "modifications " to accomplish these > >> feats, > >> >> >> > > short of the lobotomy is appears you forgot to tell us about. > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > bigvon@be*.ne* wrote: > >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > > > I did laugh at THAT one. > >> >> >> > > > I realize I am on the "DIR list", not techdiver. I will > continue > >> to > >> >> >> > > > dive my way and you guys can stay above 300 and dive your > way. > >> No > >> >> one > >> >> >> > > > has addressed the deep issue. I am not advocating deep > diving, > >> just > >> >> >> > > > commenting on a style that is safe. You WKPP guys keep > bouncing > >> the > >> >> >> > > > wrecks and we will keep exploring them. > >> >> >> > > > Von > >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > > > gordonjr wrote: > >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > > > Von, You place your backup wing on upside down, strap > the > >> >> >> > > > inflator to your waist strap, and orally inflate at > waist > >> >> >> > > > level?Hell, if I could do that I'd never leave the house > >> >> >> > > > (credits to G.Carlin). JR Gordon "Just flip the BC > over > >> >> >> > > > and place it over the bolts as you do your primary B.C. > >> >> >> > > > I loop a small loop of small bungie over the bottom bolt > >> >> >> > > > before I assemble the > >> >> >> > > > harness. This loop is placed over the power inflator > >> >> >> > > > mechanism to secure it at > >> >> >> > > > your right waist. There is no hose run to the inflator. > >> Just > >> >> >> > > > orally inflate if > >> >> >> > > > needed." > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > -- > >> >> >> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > >> >> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >> >> >> > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > >> >> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >> >> > > >> >> >-- > >> >> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >> >> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >> > > > > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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