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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:11:43 -0400
From: "Denis J. Burlage" <dburlage@i-*.co*>
To: kirvine@sa*.ne*
CC: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: madison blue fatalities
G>

Speaking for myself as an out of towner,  I for one would benefit from and use
an
organized Guide/Mentoring cave diving program as you sugggest.  Such a service
if
combined with other dives I can plan with local Florida cave diving friends
would
make for a more enjoyable and safer vacation.

Often,  I am faced with being able to schedule just a handful of dives during a
weeks
vacation, particularly on the weekends when other local friends are available.
Unfortunately, this leaves large open blocks of time during the week when I
have no
available diving partners.

kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote:

> Denis, Smithers is a new "cave diver", as you can see by his comments.
> Without knowing anything about this, but being in a slightly different
> position than Smithers with regard to cave diving , I will make this one
> comment:
>
> "experienced New York cave diver" is an oxymoron. Cave diving, like
> flying a helcopter, is extremly dangerous unless you do it all the time.
>
> My further opinion, again , without knowing a thing about this accident,
> is that we need three things; 1) more spread-out training ( amounting to
> more training and "absorbtion" time, 2) we need to have groups that
> people who learn this game can dive with ( not WKPP, but simple diving
> circles to get time on the job), and 3) we need to enforce this before
> cave diving becomes an anachronism.
>
> The "instructor" community, which includes the NACD and the NSS , both
> of which are nothing more than instructor organizations, need to get
> busy with a cohesive plan to clean up this sport and make it safer and
> more fun for those whom they encourage to take their courses.
>
> Denis J. Burlage wrote:
> >
> > Will,
> >
> > It disturbed me to read your speculative post regarding the cave diving
> > fatalities at Madison Blue. You should be able to realize that a tragedy of
> > this scope it too significant and sensitive for idle uninformed chatter.
> >
> > Your opening caveat safety net statement "...this is now third hand, so
take it
> > for what it's worth.", says it all and confirms my perception or your
> > speculative statements.  All else that follows your post is conjecture or
> > merely gossip and should be left out.  You have done yourself and the other
> > readers of this list a disservice with your unconfirmed reporting of this
cave
> > diving tragedy.
> >
> > Suggest that you stick to the facts or say nothing. Better yet, wait  for
> > someone that actually knows the facts to come forth.
> >
> > Denis Burlage
> >
> > William Smithers wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 19 Oct 1999 Jbdvr@ao*.co* wrote:
> > >
> > > > does anyone have any info on the fatalities of two cave divers at
madison
> > > > blue yesterday?
> > >
> > > Yes, although this is now third hand, so take it for what it's
> > > worth.  One of the guys was an aquantence of mine, and I've
> > > done a few cave dives with him.  He was a close friend
> > > of my cave partner, so I got the call early.  Apparently
> > > Lamar Hires did the recovery (I don't know who else).
> > >
> > > They actually did the dive on Saturday, and weren't found
> > > until yesterday.  They went 1800ft back (that was apparently
> > > the plan), and through a restriction that had a spliced line.
> > > Well, they passed that point and were coming back out when
> > > they saw that the knot had slipped, and the lines had
> > > come apart.  Madison is apparently high outflow, so the
> > > downstream (toward the exit) side of
> > > the line  blew a couple hundred of feet downstream, and they
> > > had trouble finding it.  By the time they did, gas was low,
> > > and they ran out of gas 800 ft from the entrance.
> > >
> > > That's a bad day.  Both were experienced cave divers.
> > >
> > > -Will
> > >
> > > --
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> >
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>
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