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Hey Dan, I never said our currents were anything like your rippers down in Fl. Probably the strongest current any of us would get in the water with is about 2 knots. Just an estimate though. This being said, hanging on an anchor line in < 2 knot current is actually quite pleasant. Rougher seas means more scope on the anchor line which minimizes the bouncing for the divers in the water. One of the big differences here is that it seems you guys don't have the option of hanging onto the anchor line even if you wanted to (realistically in a strong Fl. Current). I certainly wouldn't want to be flapping in the breeze with a current > 2 knots! How do you guys get in the water then? If you've got a 5 knot current I'd imagine it's a pretty tough descent down just like coming up would be? Hanging on a lift bag with an up-line when a container ship is near is not a problem. Even been in the water when a container ship is within an eighth of a mile? It's pretty damn loud. You'd know it was coming pretty damn quick if you were to be run over. Solution? Simply go back down until it passes. If it takes your bag, use your buddies. You are together on the up line you know...... If there were boats up here with Chase Boats, ton's of room, everybody diving similar profiles, etc. I'd dive with them. Until this changes I think I'm going to have to stick with what we have. Honestly, even if I had all the above I'd still rather hang from an anchor line. Drifting deco in 3 feet of viz. just doesn't seem to appeal to me! Art. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Volker [mailto:dlv@ga*.ne*] Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 6:18 PM To: Kirvne@Sa*. Net; Mailing Tech Diver List (E-mail); Paltz, Art Subject: RE: Jersey Up Line Art, The mere idea that you guys typically do your deco hanging on a fixed line, indicates pretty well you dive in very light currents by the standard of S.Fl Tech dives. When you have a "real current", like a Gulf Stream current blowing at 5.5 mph, not too many NE wreck divers would enjoy "hanging, clipping , or whine-ing on the line for an hour or more of deco. When you do have one of these "real currents", it would be stupid to set your self up as a human trolling rig, flailing in the current, and causing serious muscle contractions as you attempt to stabilize yourself in this precarious position. The solution, as George has already told you, is having dive groups dive reasonable profiles, and to limit the number of divers in the water at any one time, to a number easily managed by the main dive boat or chase boat combo. As to the issue of diving in a shipping channel where ships will ignore even your dive boat, your idea of "clipping off to your big line sounds like a great way for you guys to omit deco obligations and go water skiing behind one of these container ships <g>. I'd use a high speed torpedo float, which is pulled by a light line, and which causes very small drag down on the shipwreck when we hook up to it. This would be for a two or three man team. While we don't normally dive this way, you could probably put two teams down on a big wreck at the same time, but much more would start increasing the stroke factor in dive planning. . When we finish ( each team), we unhook and drift free for ascent. The boat on top follows. The divers are relaxed and muscle contractions are a non-issue. The divers will have a safety diver jumping in at 24 minutes into the dive or pre-arranged time) to check on the teams, and in your shipping channel scenario, to alert them to any big ships about to go through. A good safety diver could certainly deal with the ship about to be overhead issue, even if it required cutting or deflating the float line, and then deploying another after the ship has passed. Dan Volker -----Original Message----- From: Paltz, Art [mailto:Art.Paltz@R2*.CO*] Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 11:18 AM To: Mailing Tech Diver List (E-mail) Subject: RE: Jersey Up Line I think you guys are missing the point. Drift diving with or without a buoy is very dangerous. Heck, leaving the other divers on a ball is dangerous when you are chasing the other divers. If you had a chase boat maybe this is an option but I don't see how you're going to drag the drifting divers back to the main boat? Having them drifting in a major shipping lane with or without a chase boat is very dangerous. It's much safer to have the divers use proper equipment and a strong enough up-line to tie off to the wreck and support the divers. Like I said before, if a container ship can run into a light tower siting up 150 feet, you think they are going to see and steer around a float ball, lift bag or little chase boat? Your best option is to stay close to the boat. Maybe the ship will see the dive boat or can be called on the radio. By the time an 800 foot container traveling at 18 knots saw a float ball it would be too late to turn the ship. I really don't think the container ships sit there and scan the water with binoculars miles in front of themselves looking for a float ball. They rely on their radar and if they are looking at it will steer to avoid a moored dive boat. A chase boat is a wonderful thing but I don't understand how you tow them back to the dive boat? If you were doing a drift dive and the boat was following all the float balls, this is a very different situation. I have done this and although I don't like it, it's very effective for this type of diving. I don't think it works well in a 2 knot current with a moored dive boat. Being dragged at 2 knots against a 2 knot current back to the dive boat is not my idea of an enjoyable deco hang. Art. -----Original Message----- From: kirvine@sa*.ne* [mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*] Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 8:56 AM To: Scaleworks@ao*.co* Cc: ststev@un*.co*; Paltz, Art; techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: Re: Jersey Up Line Release and put a buoy on the drifters, go back and stand by the main line. Those on the main line should have already been checked for problems. If you could get these guys to coordinate, everyone could drift when the current is moving, and everyone could sit when it is not. Scaleworks@ao*.co* wrote: > > In a message dated 99-08-27 06:18:21 EDT, kirvine@sa*.ne* writes: > > << The main boat needs to be free > from the wreck line, or releasable with a pelican, like the tuna > fishermen use when they get a big one on chumming.>> > > Standard on the boat I frequent most, Captain Janet can be off the mooring in > seconds. Should the dive boat chase down drifting divers and leave anyone on > the line or bottom with no support? The point that was made here, was that > there is no reason to tie off to a wreck in any situation to do an emergency > ascent, that drifting deco in an open ocean is prefferable. > > <<The Jersey up reel is one more accomodation to farm animal stupidity - > another peice of garbage used to compensate for doing it wrong to start > with. Another clusterfuck waiting to happen, like bondage wings. >> > > But why? What is this clusterfuck scenario you are implying is waiting to > happen with a jersey upline? If you are on a deep wreck in a team of 3, and > are relying on your reel as an upline, are you going to fit enough line on a > reel to account for scope in the line from the current, and that is strong > enough to withstand possible chafing on the bottom, and hold 3 divers in a > current? > What is the procedure you reccomend.? > > Kevin -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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