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Mat This is exactly the point that William, Bigvon, me, etc. have been making. You are doing a serious dive and you lose your partner,but unfortunately your one and only BT is on the blink. How deep are you? How long do you stay? Are you willing to risk it all when a small redundant BT would bail you out? AS the scouts say...be prepared. >As far as I'm concerned if you are doing a serious >dive and you lose your buddy it's time to call the >dive. > >Mat. > >--- William Allen <william@ca*.co*> wrote: >> My point if you count your buddy as your redundant >> back up, how is that >> safe? Never, Never, never count on some one else to >> pull your butt out of a >> sling. If you do count on him, and while diving get >> separated what happens? >> A buddy is nice to have, but to count on him how is >> that rational. We dive >> in an area where buddy separation is a fact of life, >> turn your head, stop to >> see something and he's gone, a feature of poor >> visibility diving. I'm sorry >> if I feel increased danger doesn't stop me from >> enjoying things I like. It's >> called risk management it's throughout one's life >> from bankers, businessman, >> to insurance people. You look at the risk, do your >> planning to minimize it, >> than rationally decide is there an alternative and >> then you ask can I accept >> this risk? >> I think some of the most dangerous diving i have >> ever heard of is what the >> wkpp does. These guys know the risk, work every >> posible angle to minumize >> the risk. The accept a very real risk every time >> they do this, should they >> say no because of the risk? I know they look at >> their dive buddies as a last >> line of defense, there if all else fails. The first >> line should always be >> you and your brain, your equipment, your personal >> redundency. Most buddies, >> unless you dive reguarly togther, share goals and >> have similar skill levels >> can add more risk than redundecy. >> >> ----Original Message----- >> From: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >> To: William Allen <william@ca*.co*> >> Cc: TECH LIST <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >> Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 11:10 AM >> Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >> >> >> >You tell me in an earlier post to "eat me" and now >> call my views against >> >solo diving "irrational"? I guess I gladly miss >> the point, and choose to >> >be irrational. My "sweeping statement" was >> against Solo tech >> diving...your >> >definition of "Tech" is your own, but mines >> involves deco, penetration, >> >anything beyond the norm. I'd rather have another >> brain, another set of >> >tanks, another bottom timer etc, then a vast watery >> void to assist me. >> > >> > No one says you have to DIR dive, I choose to. >> The original poster wanted >> >to know about redundancy...what better redundancy >> can you have then a well >> >equipped buddy? You acknowledge the increased >> danger of diving solo...is >> >that not reason enough to _not_ do it? If a buddy >> is not interested in >> >doing what your objective is on the dive, apply >> Rule Number One. I for one >> >would rather sit do nothing then endanger my life. >> > >> >Back to non Deity status. >> > >> >Sean >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: William Allen <william@ca*.co*> >> >To: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >> >Cc: TECH LIST <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >> >Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 5:08 PM >> >Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >> > >> > >> >>Any time anyone makes sweeping statements such as >> yours they must be a >> god. >> >>So your telling me on deep, dark, cold tech dives >> there is no photography, >> >>no digging, no hunting. In poor -20 most times >> less than 15 ft visibility >> >>dives everybody just buddy dives. Perhaps I should >> have asked you to >> define >> >>technical diving. Up here on many of our mixed >> gas, planned deco dives we >> >>have a plan that some times may consists of x >> amount of time on the dive >> >>than meet at the anchor or wherever we chose. >> There are limiting factors >> of >> >>course, penetration, to name but one that we would >> chose not to solo dive. >> >>Digging or photography some how I can't see me >> sitting there while my >> buddy >> >>digs away (destroying all vis in the process) and >> of course it's just >> great >> >>watching somebody trying to get a picture of >> something that intrigues him >> >>while I float there waiting. Yes it not something >> to be taken lightly, and >> >>yes it is GOD forbid more dangerous than some >> other diving. But I've >> pulled >> >>a few of the members of the buddy teams out of the >> water near death. I've >> >>heard these arguments both the irrational >> statements like yours and some >> >>very rational arguments for and against. I dive >> solo at times and find it >> >>very similar to buddy diving as I don't count on >> them to help or save me >> if >> >>the shit hits the fan. By the way I'm glad to hear >> about your diet, you >> >>should watch chicken i understand the bones can be >> dangerous. Never eat it >> >>solo as your buddy can do the hemlich if you have >> a problem. Bill >> >>-----Original Message----- >> >>From: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >> >>To: William Allen <william@ca*.co*> >> >>Cc: TECH LIST <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >> >>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 4:37 PM >> >>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >> >> >> >> >> >>>O great recreational diver, photographer, hunter >> etc. Please go back to >> >>>Rec.SCUBA. The nature of this list is TECH. Do >> you not get it? Tech >> >done >> >>>solo is the thread, your buddy being redundant >> gear was the discussion. >> >>>Solo dive to your hearts content...that is NOT >> DIR. That is my argument. >> >>>And I guess I missed the part where I professed >> to being a dive God. I >> >>limit >> >>>my diet to things good for me. >> >>> >> >>>Sean >> >>> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >> >>>From: William Allen <william@ca*.co*> >> >>>To: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >> >>>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 4:10 PM >> >>>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>>O great dive god. Eat me. Solo diving is a way >> of life for >> photographers, >> >>>>hunters, diggers, or people like me who go >> diving for the peace and >> quiet >> >>>>and really dive with one of the best buddies you >> can have now go back to >> >>>>rec.scuba with such garbage. >> >>>>-----Original Message----- >> >>>>From: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >> >>>>To: susan m. innes >> <premier@ma*.ac*.ne*> >> >>>>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com >> <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >> >>>>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 4:01 PM >> >>>>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>>Diving solo is tantamount to deep air...folks >> do it, both are stupid >> and >> >>>>>will get you killed sooner or later. If you >> want to do the solo diver >> >>>>>debate, please move to REC.SCUBA. You are >> obviously neither DIR, nor >> in >> >>>>the >> >>>>>companionship of someone you consider a good >> buddy. I observe Rule #1 >> >on >> >>>>>ALL TECH DIVES, period, no questions asked, >> zero tolerance. If you >> want >> >>>to >> >>>>>dive solo...I'm sure Rob Palmer could use the >> company. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>If your going to reply, please reply to >> REC.SCUBA, I'm sure you can >> >=== message truncated === > >_____________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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