William,

So are you saying you go on a serious dives that will
require staged decompression with a buddy you don't
trust to be there for you?  A buddy who is gonna
dissapear?  A buddy perhaps who does not have the same
experience, and attitude that you have?

As far as I'm concerned if you are doing a serious
dive and you lose your buddy it's time to call the
dive.

The way I read your message is that you are only
looking out for number one period. You sound like a
buddy who is not concered about losing his dive
partner and who would still continue the dive without
wondering where your buddy has gone.  I don't think
I'd want to dive with a buddy with that type of
attitude.

If this is the case you are better not to engage in
technical diving and stick to the PADI NDL limits.

Mat.

--- William Allen <william@ca*.co*> wrote:
> My point if you count your buddy as your redundant
> back up, how is that
> safe? Never, Never, never count on some one else to
> pull your butt out of a
> sling. If you do count on him, and while diving get
> separated what happens?
> A buddy is nice to have, but to count on him how is
> that rational. We dive
> in an area where buddy separation is a fact of life,
> turn your head, stop to
> see something and he's gone, a feature of poor
> visibility diving. I'm sorry
> if I feel increased danger doesn't stop me from
> enjoying things I like. It's
> called risk management it's throughout one's life
> from bankers, businessman,
> to insurance people. You look at the risk, do your
> planning to minimize it,
> than rationally decide is there an alternative and
> then you ask can I accept
> this risk?
> I think some of the most dangerous diving i have
> ever heard of is what the
> wkpp does. These guys know the risk, work every
> posible angle to minumize
> the risk. The accept a very real risk every time
> they do this, should they
> say no because of the risk? I know they look at
> their dive buddies as a last
> line of defense, there if all else fails. The first
> line should always be
> you and your brain, your equipment, your personal
> redundency. Most buddies,
> unless you dive reguarly togther, share goals and
> have similar skill levels
> can add more risk than redundecy.
> 
> ----Original Message-----
> From: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*>
> To: William Allen <william@ca*.co*>
> Cc: TECH LIST <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 11:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth
> 
> 
> >You tell me in an earlier post to "eat me" and now
> call my views against
> >solo diving "irrational"?   I guess I gladly miss
> the point, and choose to
> >be irrational.   My "sweeping statement" was
> against Solo tech
> diving...your
> >definition of "Tech" is your own, but mines
> involves deco, penetration,
> >anything beyond the norm.  I'd rather have another
> brain, another set of
> >tanks, another bottom timer etc, then a vast watery
> void to assist me.
> >
> > No one says you have to DIR dive, I choose to. 
> The original poster wanted
> >to know about redundancy...what better redundancy
> can you have then a well
> >equipped buddy?  You acknowledge the increased
> danger of diving solo...is
> >that not reason enough to _not_ do it?  If a buddy
> is not interested in
> >doing what your objective is on the dive, apply
> Rule Number One.  I for one
> >would rather sit do nothing then endanger my life.
> >
> >Back to non Deity status.
> >
> >Sean
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: William Allen <william@ca*.co*>
> >To: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*>
> >Cc: TECH LIST <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 5:08 PM
> >Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth
> >
> >
> >>Any time anyone makes sweeping statements such as
> yours they must be a
> god.
> >>So your telling me on deep, dark, cold tech dives
> there is no photography,
> >>no digging, no hunting. In poor -20 most times
> less than 15 ft visibility
> >>dives everybody just buddy dives. Perhaps I should
> have asked you to
> define
> >>technical diving. Up here on many of our mixed
> gas, planned deco dives we
> >>have a plan that some times may consists of x
> amount of time on the dive
> >>than meet at the anchor or wherever we chose.
> There are limiting factors
> of
> >>course, penetration, to name but one that we would
> chose not to solo dive.
> >>Digging or photography some how I can't see me
> sitting there while my
> buddy
> >>digs away (destroying all vis in the process) and
> of course it's just
> great
> >>watching somebody trying to get a picture of
> something that intrigues him
> >>while I float there waiting. Yes it not something
> to be taken lightly, and
> >>yes it is GOD forbid more dangerous than some
> other diving. But I've
> pulled
> >>a few of the members of the buddy teams out of the
> water near death. I've
> >>heard these arguments both the irrational
> statements like yours and some
> >>very rational arguments for and against. I dive
> solo at times and find it
> >>very similar to buddy diving as I don't count on
> them to help or save me
> if
> >>the shit hits the fan. By the way I'm glad to hear
> about your diet, you
> >>should watch chicken i understand the bones can be
> dangerous. Never eat it
> >>solo as your buddy can do the hemlich if you have
> a problem. Bill
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*>
> >>To: William Allen <william@ca*.co*>
> >>Cc: TECH LIST <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 4:37 PM
> >>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth
> >>
> >>
> >>>O great recreational diver, photographer, hunter
> etc. Please go back to
> >>>Rec.SCUBA.  The nature of this list is TECH.  Do
> you not get it?  Tech
> >done
> >>>solo is the thread, your buddy being redundant
> gear was the discussion.
> >>>Solo dive to your hearts content...that is NOT
> DIR.  That is my argument.
> >>>And I guess I missed the part where I professed
> to being a dive God. I
> >>limit
> >>>my diet to things good for me.
> >>>
> >>>Sean
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: William Allen <william@ca*.co*>
> >>>To: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*>
> >>>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 4:10 PM
> >>>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>O great dive god. Eat me. Solo diving is a way
> of life for
> photographers,
> >>>>hunters, diggers, or people like me who go
> diving for the peace and
> quiet
> >>>>and really dive with one of the best buddies you
> can have now go back to
> >>>>rec.scuba with such garbage.
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*>
> >>>>To: susan m. innes
> <premier@ma*.ac*.ne*>
> >>>>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >>>>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 4:01 PM
> >>>>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Diving solo is tantamount to deep air...folks
> do it, both are stupid
> and
> >>>>>will get you killed sooner or later.  If you
> want to do the solo diver
> >>>>>debate, please move to REC.SCUBA.  You are
> obviously neither DIR, nor
> in
> >>>>the
> >>>>>companionship of someone you consider a good
> buddy.  I observe Rule #1
> >on
> >>>>>ALL TECH DIVES, period, no questions asked,
> zero tolerance.  If you
> want
> >>>to
> >>>>>dive solo...I'm sure Rob Palmer could use the
> company.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>If your going to reply, please reply to
> REC.SCUBA, I'm sure you can
> 
=== message truncated ===

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