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So what your implying is that having no one is better the someone. Oh yeah, I see the benefit of that. DIR by design is 100% redundant, even offering a third reg via the inflator. BUT done even a little bit wrong (inflator on the wrong post) and you lose that benefit. DIR is 100% or not at all. DIR is minimization of risk to the lowest possible denominator... Solo dive to your hearts content. I'd rather adapt my dive to allow for the inclusion of a buddy. I also count on the fact that if the shit hits the fan, my buddy will be there to dig me out...that is what Rule Number One is for. I don't tech dive with strokes, only folks I know will be there when I need them. Lets end this useless thread and go back to arguing Bungee wings, it's about as productive. Sean -----Original Message----- From: William Allen <william@ca*.co*> To: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> Cc: TECH LIST <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 11:44 AM Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >My point if you count your buddy as your redundant back up, how is that >safe? Never, Never, never count on some one else to pull your butt out of a >sling. If you do count on him, and while diving get separated what happens? >A buddy is nice to have, but to count on him how is that rational. We dive >in an area where buddy separation is a fact of life, turn your head, stop to >see something and he's gone, a feature of poor visibility diving. I'm sorry >if I feel increased danger doesn't stop me from enjoying things I like. It's >called risk management it's throughout one's life from bankers, businessman, >to insurance people. You look at the risk, do your planning to minimize it, >than rationally decide is there an alternative and then you ask can I accept >this risk? >I think some of the most dangerous diving i have ever heard of is what the >wkpp does. These guys know the risk, work every posible angle to minumize >the risk. The accept a very real risk every time they do this, should they >say no because of the risk? I know they look at their dive buddies as a last >line of defense, there if all else fails. The first line should always be >you and your brain, your equipment, your personal redundency. Most buddies, >unless you dive reguarly togther, share goals and have similar skill levels >can add more risk than redundecy. > >----Original Message----- >From: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >To: William Allen <william@ca*.co*> >Cc: TECH LIST <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 11:10 AM >Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth > > >>You tell me in an earlier post to "eat me" and now call my views against >>solo diving "irrational"? I guess I gladly miss the point, and choose to >>be irrational. My "sweeping statement" was against Solo tech >diving...your >>definition of "Tech" is your own, but mines involves deco, penetration, >>anything beyond the norm. I'd rather have another brain, another set of >>tanks, another bottom timer etc, then a vast watery void to assist me. >> >> No one says you have to DIR dive, I choose to. The original poster wanted >>to know about redundancy...what better redundancy can you have then a well >>equipped buddy? You acknowledge the increased danger of diving solo...is >>that not reason enough to _not_ do it? If a buddy is not interested in >>doing what your objective is on the dive, apply Rule Number One. I for one >>would rather sit do nothing then endanger my life. >> >>Back to non Deity status. >> >>Sean >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: William Allen <william@ca*.co*> >>To: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >>Cc: TECH LIST <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 5:08 PM >>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >> >> >>>Any time anyone makes sweeping statements such as yours they must be a >god. >>>So your telling me on deep, dark, cold tech dives there is no photography, >>>no digging, no hunting. In poor -20 most times less than 15 ft visibility >>>dives everybody just buddy dives. Perhaps I should have asked you to >define >>>technical diving. Up here on many of our mixed gas, planned deco dives we >>>have a plan that some times may consists of x amount of time on the dive >>>than meet at the anchor or wherever we chose. There are limiting factors >of >>>course, penetration, to name but one that we would chose not to solo dive. >>>Digging or photography some how I can't see me sitting there while my >buddy >>>digs away (destroying all vis in the process) and of course it's just >great >>>watching somebody trying to get a picture of something that intrigues him >>>while I float there waiting. Yes it not something to be taken lightly, and >>>yes it is GOD forbid more dangerous than some other diving. But I've >pulled >>>a few of the members of the buddy teams out of the water near death. I've >>>heard these arguments both the irrational statements like yours and some >>>very rational arguments for and against. I dive solo at times and find it >>>very similar to buddy diving as I don't count on them to help or save me >if >>>the shit hits the fan. By the way I'm glad to hear about your diet, you >>>should watch chicken i understand the bones can be dangerous. Never eat it >>>solo as your buddy can do the hemlich if you have a problem. Bill >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >>>To: William Allen <william@ca*.co*> >>>Cc: TECH LIST <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 4:37 PM >>>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >>> >>> >>>>O great recreational diver, photographer, hunter etc. Please go back to >>>>Rec.SCUBA. The nature of this list is TECH. Do you not get it? Tech >>done >>>>solo is the thread, your buddy being redundant gear was the discussion. >>>>Solo dive to your hearts content...that is NOT DIR. That is my argument. >>>>And I guess I missed the part where I professed to being a dive God. I >>>limit >>>>my diet to things good for me. >>>> >>>>Sean >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: William Allen <william@ca*.co*> >>>>To: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >>>>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 4:10 PM >>>>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >>>> >>>> >>>>>O great dive god. Eat me. Solo diving is a way of life for >photographers, >>>>>hunters, diggers, or people like me who go diving for the peace and >quiet >>>>>and really dive with one of the best buddies you can have now go back to >>>>>rec.scuba with such garbage. >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >>>>>To: susan m. innes <premier@ma*.ac*.ne*> >>>>>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>>>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 4:01 PM >>>>>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Diving solo is tantamount to deep air...folks do it, both are stupid >and >>>>>>will get you killed sooner or later. If you want to do the solo diver >>>>>>debate, please move to REC.SCUBA. You are obviously neither DIR, nor >in >>>>>the >>>>>>companionship of someone you consider a good buddy. I observe Rule #1 >>on >>>>>>ALL TECH DIVES, period, no questions asked, zero tolerance. If you >want >>>>to >>>>>>dive solo...I'm sure Rob Palmer could use the company. >>>>>> >>>>>>If your going to reply, please reply to REC.SCUBA, I'm sure you can >find >>>a >>>>>>great argument there. >>>>>> >>>>>>Sean >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: susan m. innes <premier@ma*.ac*.ne*> >>>>>>To: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >>>>>>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>>>>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 2:37 PM >>>>>>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Have you ever made a solo dive? Were you self-sufficient? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Total reliance on self-sufficiency is NOT DIR. Let's argue about >>>>bungee >>>>>>>>wings now, or maybe bottle marking, your reply was equal to both. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I forget the quote, but it is something like only a fool would be >>>stupid >>>>>>>>enough to defend themselves in court. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sean >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>From: susan m. innes <premier@ma*.ac*.ne*> >>>>>>>>To: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >>>>>>>>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>>>>>>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 1:30 PM >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>So is DIR opposed to self-sufficiency? Are you saying you are not >>>>>>>>>self-sufficient every time you go diving? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>As a side point; defending yourself in court does work when you have >>>>>>valid >>>>>>>>>explanations backed up by sound reasoning. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Self-sufficiency is like defending yourself in court...it does not >>>>>work. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Sean >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>>>>>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >>>>> >>> >>>-- >>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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