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So based on this solo diving didn't kill them. This is not a debate concerning DIR diving something I might even know a little about. This was about solo diving, not about anyones former military "job". Diplomas, money, education. I think I probably might even have a few more dive toys than you. BUT that wasn't the issue, it was solo diving kills, a fact I haven't seen any proof of. Mistakes kill, poor ill prepared choices can kill, and than accidents of course can kill. But there seems to be very little real data to support the claim that solo diving kills. Many divers solo dive but rather than listen to some self righteous asshole spout well meaning warnings they chose not to let anyone know. Me I can't help myself I have a low tolerance for garbage. -----Original Message----- From: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> To: William Allen <william@ca*.co*> Cc: TECH LIST <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 11:23 AM Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >I live 20 minutes from both the Andre screwup AND the Jane fiasco. Non DIR >setups and instruction were to blame for both. Suicide? I'm sure that was >on Janes mind as she sank to the bottom near the Corey and Chris wondering >why she had no lift to her bungee, quick dump death wings and where the hell >her buddy/instructor were. Or maybe Mike Elkins got a suicidal streak when >he decided to strap on twin steel stages and steel backgas with a wetsuit >and the same death wings, late in the day in January. > >No, that was the proliferation of the same bullshit setups that have killed >a bunch of folks. And is all wrapped up in the business as usual, we've >done it this way for so long, it has to be right crap that is promoted still >(see the bottle marking threads if you doubt me). I am a fairly well >educated, former Marine Corps officer with a few pieces of paper on the wall >to show I paid my dues (tuition?). I am stubborn by nature, but realize >when I see a better system. I would rather be alive to see my daughter born >in October, then dead because I am too cheap/stubborn/whatever to realize a >new better way of doing extended range, deco, penetration, cave whatever >flavor of diving you choose is available. I have a ton of gear that is no >longer applicable to the dives I do, mixed gas, openwater, deep wreck dives. >DIR is more then the wearing of a 7' hose, it's a buddy system, tank >marking, everything in it's place for a good damn reason philosophy. That >is what seems to be at debate here, not whether you choose to dive solo or >whatever. > >So getting back to the Original question about this thread. You would not >need two bottom timers, because you don't dive solo DIR and you have your >buddy in the event that a VERY reliable Uwatec bottom timer takes a shit. >That was what ALL this was about. > >Sean > >-----Original Message----- >From: William Allen <william@ca*.co*> >To: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*>; TECH LIST <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 5:08 PM >Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth > > >>Sean i don't think you could realistic blame these dives on solo diving. >>Many of these were almost sucide. If you want to blame solo diving for >their >>deaths perhaps some research is in order. I think you'd find gas choices >>combined with depth plus some personal health problems are more suspect. >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >>To: TECH LIST <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 4:50 PM >>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >> >> >>>I guess you don't read well... >>> >>>I SAID: >>> >>>You are obviously neither DIR, nor in the >>>>>companionship of someone you consider a good buddy. I observe Rule #1 >on >>>>>ALL TECH DIVES, period, no questions asked, zero tolerance. If you want >>>to >>>>>dive solo...I'm sure Rob Palmer could use the company. >>> >>>RULE NUMBER ONE IS DON'T DIVE WITH STROKES....I don't do that OR dive >>>SOLO...DID YOU GET IT THAT TIME??? Your arguments are invalid, get off >>your >>>Cyber diver ass and check out what those of us who dive EVERY WEEKEND and >a >>>good number of weekdays have learned. DIR is the BEST way to dive, Tech, >>>Rec. Cave etc. Deep air, personal preference and all the other stroked >out >>>bullshit is DEAD. Learn from the deaths of Andre, Mike, John, Jane, Rob >>and >>>the rest of the unnamed masses that learned the hard way... Until you >have >>>done a DIR dive, please stop this useless argument, becuase if you did, >you >>>would not be arguring over stupid stuff. >>> >>>BTW...what is your TDI number? Just curious. And please stop sending me >>>your drivel, once is enough on the list...I don' t need to read it twice. >>> >>>Sean >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: susan m. innes <premier@ma*.ac*.ne*> >>>To: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >>>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 3:56 PM >>>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >>> >>> >>>>I could have sworn that I asked YOU whether you had ever made a solo >dive? >>>>All I got from you was the party line. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Diving solo is tantamount to deep air...folks do it, both are stupid and >>>>>will get you killed sooner or later. If you want to do the solo diver >>>>>debate, please move to REC.SCUBA. You are obviously neither DIR, nor in >>>the >>>>>companionship of someone you consider a good buddy. I observe Rule #1 >on >>>>>ALL TECH DIVES, period, no questions asked, zero tolerance. If you want >>>to >>>>>dive solo...I'm sure Rob Palmer could use the company. >>>>> >>>>>If your going to reply, please reply to REC.SCUBA, I'm sure you can find >>a >>>>>great argument there. >>>>> >>>>>Sean >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: susan m. innes <premier@ma*.ac*.ne*> >>>>>To: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >>>>>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>>>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 2:37 PM >>>>>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Have you ever made a solo dive? Were you self-sufficient? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Total reliance on self-sufficiency is NOT DIR. Let's argue about >>>bungee >>>>>>>wings now, or maybe bottle marking, your reply was equal to both. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I forget the quote, but it is something like only a fool would be >>stupid >>>>>>>enough to defend themselves in court. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sean >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: susan m. innes <premier@ma*.ac*.ne*> >>>>>>>To: Sean M. Cary <SMCARY@MI*.CO*> >>>>>>>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>>>>>Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 1:30 PM >>>>>>>Subject: Re: Redundant Equipment and Holgarth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>So is DIR opposed to self-sufficiency? Are you saying you are not >>>>>>>>self-sufficient every time you go diving? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>As a side point; defending yourself in court does work when you have >>>>>valid >>>>>>>>explanations backed up by sound reasoning. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Self-sufficiency is like defending yourself in court...it does not >>>work. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sean >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>-- >>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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