Sender: Rubrifolia@ao*.co*  Date: 1/15/99 2:24 AM

>In a message dated 1/14/99 9:25:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>cobber@ci*.co* writes:
>
><< 
> using doubles? Man, talk about bullshit! Come on, Janet, what on earth 
> are you talking about here? You practice for doubles by wearing doubles. 
> How do you practice valve drills with a pony? Hell, most people who have 
> ponys can't even reach the damn valve. You're going to have to do better 
> that this...
>
>what you couldnt do it you mean.....??? 

No, with your main in the center of your back the pony is off in left 
field. And for those who put a pony in the middle of your doubles, I 
would like to see anybody on planet earth who is not a monkey reach that 
valve.

> -If you can't reach the surface with the air that's in your tank after 
> you've had a LP hose failure you should not be diving.
>
>
>1)well, lets spose you have to do some deco....lets spose you arent by the
>anchor line and want to either get back to it, or be able to tie off and send
>up a bag....lets spose its not your prob but a complete stranger going
>by....lets spose that you get snagged in something that takes you time to get
>out of at the turn around point of your dive....having that pony instead of
>having to worry about 500 pounds of air could certainly add to ones peace of
>mind.....

Doesn't anybody read my posts all the way through?  You're telling me 
that you are deco diving with a single? I won't even comment on that 
stupidity.

> -You get a DIN valve to get rid of the "oring failure phobia".
>
> 2)NOT everyboy on the planet is immediately going to commit to that type of
>equipment.....

Your abosolutely right on this one. When I took up skydiving I bought old 
sheets from the local Hotel 6 and stiched them together 'cause I could 
not afford a real chute. After all, that's what safety is all about, 
saving money, isn't it? Oh and I still use my great-grandfathers 
double-hose reg for deep diving. I mean all these new-fangled single hose 
regs are so darn expensive. Yeah, I also use empty milk cartons for 
buoyancy control, I mean you really gotta save those buckaroos whenever 
you can!


> -How about inspecting your gear before you dive in? Oh, to hell with 
> that, I've got a PONY.
>
>3)so here you take care of your argument about this piece of equipment that
>you never use,  (the Pony) but that you need to be able to function in an
>emergency.....

Huh?

> -So you're telling me that you can strap a 40lb piece of lead to the side 
> of your BC and not feel it?
>
>4)Properly mounted and rigged, like the big stove pipe lights and the argon
>bottles that we all are using you mean....\\
>
> Oh, come on, it's downright comical to see 
> the ponyboys stagger around the deck with their silly jacket BCs half 
> pulled off from the pony bottle.
>
>5)So instead of being the all time super scuba jock why dont you help them 
>out
>with managing the equipment and hopefully having good enough dives so that
>they keep coming back......believe me I hate hauling  those singles with 
>ponys
>more than anybody I know, but I still would prefer to see that than a single
>tank.....

Oh, come on Rubi, there's a laugh... Whats the fastest way to alienate 
and piss off everybody on the dive boat? Walk around kabitzing gear 
configs. No, if I did that then I would be called a goose-stepping nazi, 
enforcing my will on the personal preference crowd. No, I think it's 
better to improve my gear and then let others notice that I am enjoying 
my dives and coming up with a big smile on my face and a lobster in each 
hand, rather than cursing because of problems caused by bogus gear 
configs. That is more effective than anything else I could do.

> - Why can't you just manage your air supply? You can dive to 80' on a 40 
> if you know when it's time to turn around. What is your problem with 
> proper air mgmt?
>
>6)see first rebuttal on top.....you need enough air for "oh shit" time
>.....Murphy comes knocking at the least opportune times....redundant,
>redundant, redundant....

My argument on this is what are the odds of gear failure vs. the hassel 
of a pony? Every day thousands of dives are successfully completed using 
a single 80 with one reg. Divers are croaking right  and left and from 
what I've seen the vast majority could not have been helped by a pony. 
Look at the Aquacorps death archive and come up with one example of those 
fiascos where a pony would have helped over proper training and 
experience.

>
> -Fencing invisible dragons is a popular side-line with scuba divers. Some 
> guys look like fucking chrismas trees what with all their whistles, 
> clips, mirrors, lights, bags, sacks, knives hanging all over them. Ponys 
> are the worst of the lot.
>
>7Somehow I cant see how air --backup, emergency air--kept available in a
>completely redundant package deserves your ridicule.....besides an open ocean
>diver should have all of the above in double form....neatly organized yes, 
>but
>it all should be there....and there are countless stories and reasons
>why....ask anyone who has been in a roaring current and had to fight to stay
>on the lline or not miss the boat....ask the folks who have had to drift for
>any length of time before being picked up.....

Like I said over and over if air is the issue then do it right and get a 
set of doubles. I don't have a problem with having tons of air, it's just 
that it needs to be there when you need it. This is called getting a set 
of doubles.

> I have not forgotten my roots. As a matter of fact I thank the pony for 
> quickening my switch to doubles. When I had a pony my thought after every 
> dive was "man, the fucking pony sucks, theres got to be a better way". 
> And there was!
>
>7) sounds to me like you were a pretty crumby diver back when you used a
>pony....it was always hanging you up and snagging you and everything....I 
>dont
>ever recall the pony bothering me that much.....I moved up to doubles purely
>cause I started cruising around inside wrecks and needed the bottom time.....

Your right, I was, and getting doubles made me a much better diver. It 
was during my pony days that I almost quit the sport because of my 
dislike of my gear setup. So far I have seen at least 10 of the guys' 
that I regularly dive with get rid of their ponys and move to doubles for 
all the right reasons. Lots of smiling faces on the way back in.

> And don't go throwing that implied "nazi cave diver" crap at me. As I 
> have said dozens of times on this list, I really don't care how screwed 
> up a rig people choose to dive with. It makes absolutely no difference to 
> me what horrors folks try to put themselves through before they see the 
> light. I am just trying to save some folks some dough and keep them from 
> making the same mistakes I've made, nothing more.
> 
> And I really don't like the "I've got more dives than God, therefore I 
> know everything and am much smarter than you" crowd like you dispensing 
> the DEMA party line all the time, fuck all that. There's a better way 
> now, wake up and smell the roses, use your brain and quit dispensing the 
> same old bullshit.

That's what I said, more dives than God, more dives than you, me, the 
whole planet put together. So what's your point? Look, I like the Wahoo 
crowd, I think they are a great bunch of divers. I just have a problem 
with pony's and so far nothing you or Janet have relayed to me has 
changed my mind. I think that ponys are being used incorrectly by the 
majority of divers and the issue needs to be aired out. 

Those divers out there who are getting into deco with a single tank are 
asking for trouble. And those divers who are routinely using your pony to 
deco out on or using it to increase their bottom time are going to get 
bit in the ass sooner or later. I wish divers would be a bit more 
forthcoming on their personal fuckups because if they were I will bet you 
that all kinds of pony horror stories would come out of the woodwork.

If you truly are using a pony for backup, why would you need anything 
more than a 6cuft? If money is the issue, like Janet seems to be worried 
about, and you don't want to have to sell it when you move to doubles, 
then get a LP 6cuft and use it for argon.

But those guys with 30cuft ponys are dragging around a huge hunk of gear 
which is adding NOTHING to the dive but hassel.

> Hey, Tony, I am sorry to say that you South Florida divers seems to have 
> caught on, hell I watched it happen on the Skycliffe tape, we are still 
> in the dark ages up here in the great white north.
> 
>    Jim
> 
>
>..
>


 -------------------------------------------------------------------
 Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html


--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]