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bill, you may be part of a training agency but i am not - please go to the EDBA web page & read our standards. we, as Capt Zero & Capt Steve has pointed out on numerous occasions , are the buss drivers. we try our damndest to qualify who we are taking out on these dives & when we see a person with an obviouly poor set up we attempt to have it corrected. however the risks are taken by the diver who is made completly aware of the dangers of the deep dives. i guess the sherpas aas well as everyone down to the cooks on an Everest climb are responseble for the asshole that tries to climb beyound his capabilities (eh?). your list is interesting & while i might agree with some or most of it is not important. the fact is that you can do all of the right things over & over & still get screwed on a dive. you don't need to do anything wrong you just have to have a mind fart & the next thing you know the shit hits the fan & if you(that's you the diver ) has not got the expierience to handle that problem (or the next two that hit-"Murphy's Law) then you are dead. it will not matter what gas-gear-instructor-suit-boat- captain(or for that matter who your mother was), you will be dead. wkkp has had an amazing string of great dives- it is a credit to george,,jj,you & all the others as to your accomplishments.you dive in a different environment then i do, your goals are different than mine. you have supreme control over exactly who & how many will dive with you. but with all of that you still have "close calls" (re Kirvine 18 grand dive). bill do you gus realize how close you came on that one? the thing that got you through was the amazing amount of experience & self control in the emergencies that occured. if george had much more difficulty finding thate line or the turn off on the way back was not passable (for any reason). how would the back up teams have found them in time. bill i am not critiquing this dive i am mearly pointing out the falability of us all. an error in judgement, a gear failure, a natural disaster(cave in- major flooding of a cave),etc etc, could take the best of the best at any time. for us on our ocean dives that same problems (only different) can do the same. it is always easier to blame someone else for the problems & sometimes that may be well founded but not always.sometimes shit happens beyound the divers capability to cope with it (at that time) & at that time that is all she wrote for that guy. it sounds pretty much like that was the scene on the last death on the Doria. maybe as you guys have promised over & over you will be coming up to do a few dives with us. i think you should - you might see that there arte some reasons for doing things a little different than you do in the caves. hank In a message dated 8/6/98 3:45:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wwm@sa*.ne* writes: << Subj: Captains Dozen Plus Date: 8/6/98 3:45:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: wwm@sa*.ne* (Bill Mee) Reply-to: wwm@sa*.ne* To: GarlooEnt@ao*.co* CC: GarlooEnt@ao*.co*, Wahoo2001@ao*.co*, Wahoojan@ao*.co*, Sealass@ao*.co*, JS1SUBAQUA@ao*.co*, Hookboy@ao*.co*, WreckValle@ao*.co*, PGRN98@ao*.co*, dkovah@ib*.ne*, Ussfriel@ao*.co*, butler@li*.co*, wahoo2001wrckdvr@wo*.at*.ne*, kmfs@bt*.ne*, Rubrifolia@ao*.co*, NICKSKYDIV@ao*.co*, algolden3@ju*.co*, captbill@je*.co*, Captdeep6@ao*.co*, chris_tyls@me*.co*, mail@wa*.or*, CAPTZEROOO@ao*.co*, wkikta@ci*.co*, CFriel@GC*.co*, dkovach@ib*.ne*, Shnesmith@ao*.co*, THEBEARD21@ao*.co*, ggentile@de*.co*, HESSIANS@ao*.co*, Wrckdvr@wo*.at*.ne*, JoelSilverstein@wo*.at*.ne*, Scaleworks@ao*.co*, LouiseHow@ao*.co*, B2@cs*.co*, gzambeck@us*.ne*, heseltine@ea*.ne*, underh2o@ma*.ex*.co*, scatsta@mc*.co*, mjp@ap*.av*.co*.uk*, techvid@ne*.co*, dcrco@jp*.ne*, TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*, cavers@ca*.co*, techdiver@aquanaut.com, halcyon@ha*.ne* Hank, The boat captain is the last line of defense against self destructive stupidity and dangerous risk fraught practices. You need to be prepared to turn people away if they don't meet basic criteria. You can be sure that the attorney for the plaintiff (i.e. the dead diver's relatives) will consider you in the same light as the getaway car driver unless you have enforced basic standards. If you don't believe me, go ahead and ask one of them. You all know who they are and they are on these lists. Releases mean nothing in the face of obvious negligence. Do not under any circumstances accept only training agency standards as being sufficient. You must be your own filter. (See WKPP.org website for gear rigging information) FYI, if the following checklist had been adhered to the last four technical diving fatalities in Florida would probably not have occurred. CAPTAINS DOZEN PLUS: 1. All stage and deco bottles must be marked with 3" MODs on both sides of the bottles so that the MOD is easily visible to other divers while submerged. 2. No Air diving below 120 fsw, preferably 100 fsw. 3. Mixed gas i.e. helium, nitrogen oxygen mixes must be mixed to an EAD of 100fsw or less. Divers must sign off that they have the correct mix for a dive. 4. Remixing must be done so that the resultant mix has an EAD of 100 fsw or less. Verification of the residual tank pressure and signed confirmation of the helium content and EAD of the remix should be enforced. 5. Back tanks must be of the correct capacity and have an isolator dual manifold. 6. No diving with steel back tanks unless the diver is wearing a drysuit. 7. No diving with "bungee" wings or elastic collapsible wings or similar convoluted buoyancy compensation systems. 8. The back tank gas must always be the deepest gas. Never allow diving with a stage bottle of mix and some other gas in the back tanks. 9. For a dual reg double tank system the backup regulator should be worn around the neck on a necklace and the primary long hose reg should be breathed. 10. All in water decompression diving must have a support diver available during the final phases of deco. Ask divers about their dive times and decompression plans in advance so that you don't have some "hangman" interfering with an emergency. 11. Along the lines of #10. Do not permit extremely long exposures which will almost always result in potential deco problems and possible injury. The ability of the dive boat to manage emergencies offshore is not the same as being at the dock and dialing 911. 12. No solo diving on decompression dives. The dive team is part of the life support system. 13. Never permit drift diving without a towed floatation system. 14. Do not permit strange looking breathing apparatus (i.e. closed circuit electronic rebreathers or other gadgetry) unless the individual can definitively demonstrate proficiency in their use and they have legally absolved you of potential guilt. 15. Beware of personality types who appear to be "trying to prove something". These guys will get themselves or somebody else killed. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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