>Dan
>As I stated in an earlier post, I have tried several types of diet (normal
>not dieting) Years ago when I was doing marathons someone convinced me to
>become a vegan and I tried it for about  nine months, in my case I lost
>muscle size decreased my speed and endurance. amazing when I went back onto
>a diet with meat, chicken and fish in it I recovered almost instantly back
>to normal.

Hi Tom, it sounds like you are doing great with your diet structure.



>I still need an answer to the creatin question on dose and cycle. I have
>quit using it prior to my runs as of this week, thanks for the tip on that.
>
>Tom

Here it is. This is from Terry>
A lot depends on the purity of the creatine you are using....please don't
believe the bullshit hype put forth by supplement companies. All creatine is
not the same and most all creatines on the market are NOT 99% pure. In the
next few months - a lot of national exposure to this will become evident on
the magazines as the FDA is expected to take heed to the fact that creatine
purity is not as advertised by most companies. SKW creatine is the most pure
and superior form of creatine available. Only two companies sell SKW
creatine - they are ProLab and Cybergenics. The difference in SKW and other
creatines lie in the process used to refine and crystallize the creatine.
SKW wholesales to the manufactures (Cybergenics and ProLab at about 21.50 a
kilo for raw materials purchased in 100,000 kilo lots) Other creatines
wholesale as low as $8.50 a kilo - it is true - you get what you pay for.

SKW creatine is lower in creatinine (a bad side product of creatine) as well
as lower in both sodium and arsenic. SKW creatine is a true pure crystal -
very white and dry to the touch with a consistency like table salt (grainy)
Unlike other creatines that are stepped on with di-calcium phosphate, sodium
bicarbonate and other fillers (yet these ass hole companies claim it is
"pure" - the only thing that is pure is the bullshit they feed you in their
ads). These lesser forms of creatine are very fine powders (much like talc)
and are very inferior and unstable. Creatine is hydroponic - and absorbs
moisture and impurities if not processed in a correct manner - thus you have
cheap creatine that is laden with impurities which cause the body to either
throw it off or lessen the effectiveness of it completely.

Next is the difference between creatines in a delivery system or straight
creatine powder - most all delivery systems are loaded with too much sugar
which causes a drastic insulin spike - a very undesirable thing. My favorite
(since I developed the formula over one year of rigorous training, testing
and study) is  Creatine Pump from Cybergenics. It is formulated with only 15
grams of sugar for rapid infusion of the creatine and I also use
Maltodextrin for a more extended glycogen load and balanced blood sugar  -
thereby allowing the creatine to function to it's fullest ability. Everyone
that tries this product just once - experiences and feels the difference -
it is THAT good.

As far as dosage - 5 grams a day is enough - do not load creatine and only
use before weight training or after very intense aerobic or cardiovascular
training (to aid in recovery). Creatine research proves it's ability to
recycle ATP (which is the body's own natural energy production source)
research also shows it's effectiveness in cell volumizing due to
intracellular hydration - a good quality creatine transports nutrients into
the cells and there is little to no "fluid retention" - whereas lesser
creatines simply hydrate the cell with fluid "causing water retention"
instead of nutrient transport.

I hope this helps......

Terry

----------
From:  Dan Volker [SMTP:dlv@ga*.ne*]
Sent:  Tuesday, March 31, 1998 7:27 PM
To:  Terry
Subject:  Fw: Diet and Training series for fitness in deep diving, Part one;
Hydration

Terry,
Could you answer this----Tom Mount is the head of IANTD----the 5th dan:-)
Thanks,
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
To: Dan Volker <dlv@ga*.ne*>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; Bill
Lais <BillLais@ao*.co*>
Cc: 'cavers' <cavers@ww*.ge*.co*>
Date: Friday, March 27, 1998 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Diet and Training series for fitness in deep diving, Part one;
Hydration



>Dan
>Wow. I have been using creatin wrong. I always take it prior to workout,
>combined with my protein drink. I also use it when diving.
>The only physical difference I have noticed is increased strength. and that
>has been significant.
>
>What dosage would you recommend and what cycle. I tend to do  a lower dose
>but almost every day. I also do take it along with my protein drink first
>thing in the morning prior to running , cycling or baldeing which ever I do
>that day. On days I do not workout I do not take it. But often I will go
>three weeks or more without taking a day off from training. I tend to only
>lay off when doing cave dives or when my body just feels it has had enough.
>
>tom
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dan Volker <dlv@ga*.ne*>
>To: Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*
><TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>; Bill Lais <BillLais@ao*.co*>
>Cc: 'cavers' <cavers@ww*.ge*.co*>
>Date: Friday, March 27, 1998 2:56 PM
>Subject: Re: Diet and Training series for fitness in deep diving, Part one;
>Hydration
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Guys,
>>>
>>>I would appreciate any input or experience you have with the use of
>>creatine.
>>>I personally have noticed extra long-term endurance while being on the
>>'cycle'
>>>of creatine.  I also understand that it makes muscle tissue retain water
>>(like
>>>steriods without the side-effects, though).  That could be beneficial
with
>>>respect to hydration, yes/no? Are you aware of any adverse affects
related
>>to
>>>diving, or otherwise??
>>>>
>>
>>Creatine is a "cellular volumizer"....it increases strength and recovery
>>speed, by  increasing the volume of nutrients the muscle cells pull into
>>themselves, along with an increased volume of fluid.
>>This accounts for the bloated look many creatine users experience, and it
>>also relates to a major danger to us as tech divers-----the creatine use
>>requires a massive increase in water consumption, to prevent dehydration
of
>>the muscle tissue itself, from the osmotic changes the creatine will
cause.
>>If you use creatine, ABSOLUTELY use the 2 gallon of water a day minimum
>>intake, and do not use creatine within 24 hours of deep diving.
>>Creatine can provide you with excellent strength gains, and much better
>>ability to recover from hard, muscular workouts. It is NOT one of the
>>supplements which those desiring major weight loss will want to experiment
>>with!!! It may even make you look 25 pounds heavier!!!  For endurance
>>athletes, it will also help with muscle recovery after long rides or runs,
>>and the energy issue you refer to is most likely the higher nutrient load
>>the cells in your muscles experieince, potentially "storing" more energy
>for
>>you to use over the course of a long ride/run. Use of creatine just prior
>to
>>a hard bike ride or run would NOT be advisable, due to the temporarily
>>dehydrating effects it has on your muscle tissue.  Take it AFTER you
>finish,
>>and are "re-hydrated".
>>Regards,
>>Dan
>>
>




>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dan Volker <dlv@ga*.ne*>
>To: Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; 'cavers' <cavers@ww*.ge*.co*>
>Date: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 3:40 PM
>Subject: Fw: Diet and Training series for fitness in deep diving, Partone;
>Hydration
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Dan
>>>
>>>Unless you've just been faked, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am talking about eating to become an elite level athlete---which is
>>what
>>>> a tech diver should strive to be--- and a meat eating  diet  is
>necessary
>>>> for the recovery demands of intense physical training.
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>> I bet there is an amazingly high correlation between becoming a vegan
>and
>>>> becoming gay---are you light on your feet ???
>>><snip>
>>>
>>
>>>BUT, the last time I checked a third of the WKPP lead team _was_ vegan,
>>>and the last time that person was slandered on the cavers list the
>>>poster was removed from the list.
>>>
>>>I appreciate the diet and fitness information but how about sticking to
>>>facts?
>>>
>>>Cheers
>>>
>>>David Middleton
>>
>>David, the guy was insulting me, and Terry, and I don't need that---so I
>>responded in kind.
>>The reality is, you can be a tech diver and be a vegan. You can even be
>>among the best tech or cave divers, and be a vegan.
>>But your fitness level will be as good as it is, "despite"  the fact you
>>are a vegan, not "because" of it.  There is an enormous body of evidence
to
>>prove that for elite level strength and endurance training, animal based
>>protein sources are far superior to plant proteins. Effective weight loss
>>typically involves "building" more lean bodymass---more muscle, because it
>>will have very high caloric demands, and this will promote weight loss.
And
>>since each muscular workout involves having to replenish glycogen stores
in
>>all the muscles worked,
>>you will use far more of the carbohydrate you consume, but in the process
>of
>>doing this, you tear muscle tissue, which needs quality protein to
>heal---to
>>recover. This means a higher quality protein source will ultimately help
>you
>>to burn more calories, because your percentage of bodyweight derived from
>>muscle will be higher---because you have generated more muscle tissue
>>through better anabolic metabolism, possible with a better  diet  ( and
>>large bodyweight percentages of fat, require
>>very tiny energy to sustain themselves).
>>If the guy I was responding to, had just asked me with social courtesy,
>>instead  of insults, I would have been happy to explain thouroughly.  No
>one
>>pays me to take the time to help people on this list with nutrition and
>>training help. I just do it because I think its something I ought to do.
>>.... If someone wants to insult me, FUCK them, I'm not turning any cheeks.
>>They would not do it in person, but they think they can pull shit like
this
>>from the safety of a keyboard.  This just pisses me off.  Anything I have
>>said so far can be ABSOLUTELY BACKED UP, not just by Terry's training
>>results of hundreds of world class athletes,  but also with the journal
>>articles that led to his knowledge base in the first place.
>>For instance, one thing this butt head vegan that attacked me with his
>>keyboard, does NOT know, in his foolish
>>attempt to mix  plant types to get complete protein, is that NO  plant
>>protein source has enough L-methionine  to qualify as a "source" for this
>>amino acid, essential to muscle repair. They "think" they are getting the
>>methionine they need, from nutrition lableing on their plant protein
>>sources, but the methionine they get is not L-methionine, its a different
>>molecular form, not the essential one--this is like reading you need
>vitamin
>>E, and going to a GNC store, where you buy a generic brand. Guess
>what...all
>>vitamin E is NOT equal. Several forms are completely worthless to you, yet
>>products that contain them  they still pass the
>>RDA for vitamin E.  As you probably know, at the very least, you need a
>>vitamin E complex, with the three main tocopherols mixed together, or your
>>body can't use it. Myopia among vegans in protein sourcing is far more
>>pathalogical than the vitamin E example.
>>Feel free to pass this post on to the list or anywhere. Tell the "militant
>>vegans" I won't attack them personally, unless they attack me.
>>
>>I will not fault being a vegan for health or moral reasons, but I will
>argue
>>it is
>>"INFERIOR" to a animal protein based diet for recovery from elite level
>>physical
>>training.
>>And as most athletes already know, its MUCH easier to stay in shape, by
>diet
>>and exercise, than the training and diet needed to get "into shape", when
>>you are badly out of it.  The recovery demands of intense training, to
>bring
>>a 30 % bodyfat person down to 15% will be high, assuming they take the
>>optimal route to get there. If they do not take the optimal route---they
>may
>>NEVER get there, or it may take a very LONG time. I'm trying to offer
>>fastest or best ways to get into better fitness. The militant vegan who
>>tried to slam me, is offering a "compromise" diet. I'm healthy, I think I
>>have a RIGHT as an apex predator, to eat meat, and since this is THE most
>>optimal diet for good response to high level physical training, for a
>human,
>>I'm eating meat. If someone is "sick" , has allergic problems with animal
>>proteins, a strange gastro-intestinal condition, maybe a heart condition,
>>etc., or has a problem with their heritage as a human, and wants to
>>de-evolve by a  misplaced belief in Lamarkian genetics, let them be a
>vegan.
>>But when vegans start preaching about their diets representing the optimal
>>needs of an elite athlete, you know they are just trying to justify
>>something they happen to "wish" to be true.
>>Dan Volker
>>
>>
>

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