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Randy, In a message dated 98-01-11 13:55:12 EST, you write: << This is ICE Diving not Cave diving. There are no place for reels, buddy lines or the absence of surface support. Ice diving is the single toughest environment on equipment that there is in the sport of diving. Not only do you have the in water temperatures to deal with, but the surface weather as well. To do an ice dive you need a min. of 4 divers: 2 diver 1 safety(BTW the safety is the best diver of the group) and a tender. You need one line per in water diver and one that is 1.5 as long. That is three lines in total. You need a harness under the BC with a locking carabeener(If you have to ditch the BC to untangle yourself you are still tethered). Ice dives after all, are fairly short 2X as cold (surface X water temp.) as regular cold water diving goes and are done only because we are a dedicated breed of diver that believe that our skin will dry up if you don't get in the water at least once a week 0-) These are the water condition that we are dealt and we make the best of them. As in regular diving their is nothing down there that is worth dying for, so do it as safe as possible and "do it right". I would real like to here from the cave divers out there " If cave water was 38*F would you still cave dive?" " Would you use the same gear?" "Go as often?" Randy Sullivan Sault Ste. Marie, Ont sulteck@ic*.ne* >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- Randy, it was my itention to point out that taking advantage of surface support is the smartest option, if available, but that it is certainly not necessary if you are willing to accept the risk or can reduce the risk of no support beyond help at the exit with emergency management. On a cave dive your team is out there alone and must be as self sufficient as possible to achieve what is generally considered an acceptable level of risk. The need for tethered tenders and support divers not subject to the same exposure implies that such self sufficiency is not atainable for some reason on ice dives and that the both the divers and the equipment are opperating at the limits of their ability to perform reliably under the conditions. Is this the case and, if so, why ? What does it mean if a diver is unable to follow a line back to the hole so that he has to be retrieved by the support diver ? Where is his partner and what is he doing ? This is another overhead environment with one or two additional hazards to deal with. If a pair of divers is able to achieve an acceptable level of self sufficiency I see no reason to not use reels instead of a teather. I believe that self sufficiency will be safer than the remote buddy that the tender represents as far as making it back to the hole is concerned. However, as I pointed out in my post, the presence of help on the surface is vital to the ability to handle an emergency effectively in my view. What do European cave divers do about the temperatures ? I don't know exactly what they are but I'm sure they pose a hazard. I am viewing all of this from afar - I have not dove ice since long before anyone knew much about it (and it was thin) and am in no position to tell you how to do it so this is a genuine quest for understanding. Is the use of tenders and teathers a compensation for the lack of self sufficiency on the part of the in water team and is the same degree of self sufficiency as cave divers achieve possible in ice diving in your opinion. If it is, then would not reels be a viable option to a teather ? Chuck Boone -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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