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You said:

I would real like to here from the cave divers out there " If cave water was
38*F would you still cave dive?" " Would you use the same gear?" "Go as
often?"

I do a lot of cave and mine dives in Sweden and it sure is cold water (5c) all
the year around so i guess i have no choice. I don't like it but i cant heat the
water. I use exactley the same equipment and configuration with a few exceptions
that i use when i am in Florida cave diving. The exeptions is that i use five
finger dry gloves, argon for suit inflation and i chose a good coldwater reg
like the APEX. I have also installed a billyring on my left waist band and i use
suicide clips for my stage bottles all this to bee able to connect and
disconnect the stages easier. I also use a special inflator hose that is easy to
disconnect in case of a inflator freeze up.  That is all the small modifications
that i have made to my Hogarthian gear configuration and it works great for cold
water.


Sandy Sullivan wrote:

> This is ICE Diving not Cave diving.  There are no place for reels, buddy
> lines or the absence of surface support.  Ice diving is the single toughest
> environment on equipment that there is in the sport of diving.  Not only do
> you have the in water temperatures to deal with, but the surface weather as
> well.
>
> To do an ice dive you need a min. of 4 divers: 2 diver 1 safety(BTW the
> safety is the best diver of the group) and a tender.   You need one line per
> in water diver and one that is 1.5 as long.  That is three lines in total.
> You need a harness under the BC with a locking carabeener(If you have to
> ditch the BC to untangle yourself you are still tethered).
>
> Ice dives  after all, are fairly short 2X as cold (surface X water temp.) as
> regular cold water diving goes and are done only because we are a dedicated
> breed of diver that believe that our skin will dry up if you don't get in
> the water at least once a week 0-)  These are the water condition that we
> are dealt and we make the best of them.  As in regular diving their is
> nothing down there that is worth dying for, so do it as safe as possible and
> "do it right".
>
> I would real like to here from the cave divers out there " If cave water was
> 38*F would you still cave dive?" " Would you use the same gear?" "Go as
> often?"
>
> Randy Sullivan
> Sault Ste. Marie, Ont
> sulteck@ic*.ne*
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CHK BOONE <CHKBOONE@ao*.co*>
> To: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Date: Sunday, January 11, 1998 12:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Ice diving
>
> >
> >Steve,
> >
> >n a message dated 98-01-10 00:50:38 EST, you write:
> >
> ><< I agree with the three man team as being the best option but not
always
> > attainable.
> >
> > where do you stand on the surface support issue is it neccesary or not?
> > I think that it may assist the dive but is not a necessity as long as
> > the ice is anchord a continuous line to the entrace is maintained,
> > proper gas management is observed and extreme depth is avoided(generally
> > most of the lakes we dive do not exceed 100feet so this is not an issue)
> >
> > SAFE DIVING
> >
> > STEVE >>
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------
> >   What you have said here is that a support crew is not a necessity as
> long
> >as everything goes as you hope it will.   Well, you're absolutely right !
> >
> >I know you did not mean it this way, so ;
> >
> >    I see your point in questioning the need for the big support crew in
> light
> >of the fact that other overhead excursions, specifically cave, do well
> without
> >them.   The only meaningful difference I can see in the two environments is
> >the fact that the exit can become plugged and poses a hazard to other users
> of
> >the waterway.
> >
> >    If these frozen lake environments were actually huge rock rooms with a
> >single hole in the top would we dive them any differently than caves (other
> >than having someone to keep the hole clear in some cases and lights) ?
> >
> >    It could be said that any support is a luxury and it could be said that
> >any need for support is a handicap.   Support can make the work of diving
> >easier, improve the potential outcome of an emergency, and benifit the
> effort
> >with a broader range of experience and/or expertise , but it is never
> actually
> >necessary, so all judgments as to it's need will be subjective or qualified
> by
> >various factors.
> >
> >   I tend to think like Bob Sherwood that a single highly reliable line for
> >the divers is a more reasonable setup than individual teathers for
> experienced
> >divers staying together.   (this from a strictly accademic viewpoint, not
> >personal experience with ice diving)
> >
> >    I see the dry surface crew's primary function as maintaining the
> itegrety
> >of the exit point and, as a side benifit, helping on the surface with a
> >disabled diver and emergency procedures.
> >    There is a chance of a disabled diver slipping under the ice and
> drifting
> >away while attempting to get him out of the hole; a possible justification
> for
> >having a line on each diver or for a support diver considering that there
> may
> >be no one in the water to retrieve him if his partner is lost or also
> >disabled.   So the teather and the support diver effectively extends the
> reach
> >of the surface crew who otherwise would be unable to do anything at all for
> >the divers unless they are in the hole.
> >
> >    I don't see any inherent danger or problem with running a single reel
> of
> >tough line between two "experienced" ice divers as long as technique gards
> >against the danger of droping the reel and as long as you can feel the line
> >but I can see too many lines presenting a greater risk than bennifit for
> any
> >group of divers, especially those of lesser experience or expertise.
> >
> >    I don't see any inherent danger in diving without a support crew as
> long
> >as the integrety of the anchor point and exit hole is insured.    It seems
> >that you have the block of ice under reasonable control but I might make a
> >second anchor point near the hole but under the ice for my guide line to
> gaurd
> >against tampering by ice fishermen and kids or the chance of some piece of
> >wreckage blowing across the surface of the lake and disloging your spike.
> >
> >    This is all a matter of risk control and acceptance but both the risk
> of
> >the dive itself and the risk of not being able to handle an emergency
> >effectively must be considered.   I can see an inherent increase in the
> risk
> >of not being able to handle an emergency as effectively as is reasonably
> >possible without a support crew, which poses some legal problems and
> ethical
> >responsibilities for leaders taking others diving .
> >    Can you get your buddy out of the hole alone if his drysuit is flooded
> >and/or he is unconscious?   How much time will you loose by having to doff
> >equipment before you can work effectively?   Is the fact that there will be
> no
> >one to send for help in such a case acceptable to both you and your partner
> ?
> >
> >
> >Anthony and David,
> >
> >You wrote,
> >
> >>Chuck, three of the five are up on the surface where they can talk to
> >>each other; only two are in the water.  Rope pull signals are used for
> >>divers and tenders to communicate.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Obviously, I was thinking like a cave diver, as you say, where the whole
> >"team" is in the water and thinking of the support crew as a seperate
> entity.
> >
> >Chuck Boone
> >--
> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >
>
> --
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