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Chuck, you have made some very good points and will try to address them
logically.
95% of all reg. can't handle the ice diving conditions 100% of the time.
Diving this way almost guarantees every body will be out of the water at the
end of the day.
the level of training up here for the most part is advanced open water if
you are lucky and every instructor talks up ice dive diving because they own
the dive shop.  See the dive shop sells a wet suit to the OW diver to take
them ice diving and then sell them  the dry suit they should have sold them
in the first place.
 The risks in ice diving is almost eliminated by holding to these rules in
this type of diving.  After all this is to be fun.
Self dependency should be taught here and some cave technics too, but alias
no cave instructors.  Knowing this, this why we use these rules.
Ice diving is not considered Technical diving because of the shallow depths
involved.  Hence when a putz finds out about an ice dive they show up with
putz gear.  Again diving this way gets every body out of the water.
Is the use of
>tenders and teathers a compensation for the lack of self sufficiency on the
>part of the in water team and is the same degree of self sufficiency as
cave
>divers achieve possible in ice diving in your opinion.   If it is, then
would
>not reels be a viable option to a teather ?

Yes, I think you could achieve almost the same degree of self sufficiency as
cave divers have, but not to do 10,000' or even 1,000 penetrations, water
temp. is too big of a hazard.   The question is WHY go long distance under
the ice.  Four months from now I can do any length of dive I want without an
overhead environment.   Ice diving is for fun and to get you in the water as
safe as possible.

Randy Sullivan
Sault Ste. Marie, Ont
sulteck@ic*.ne*
-----Original Message-----
From: CHK BOONE <CHKBOONE@ao*.co*>
To: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Date: Sunday, January 11, 1998 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: Ice diving
>Randy, it was my itention to point out that taking advantage of surface
>support is the smartest option, if available, but that it is certainly not
>necessary if you are willing to accept the risk or can reduce the risk of
no
>support beyond help at the exit with emergency management.
>
>On a cave dive your team is out there alone and must be as self sufficient
as
>possible to achieve what is generally considered an acceptable level of
risk.
>The need for tethered tenders and support divers not subject to the same
>exposure implies that such self sufficiency is not atainable for some
reason
>on ice dives and that the both the divers and the equipment are opperating
at
>the limits of their ability to perform reliably under the conditions.   Is
>this the case and, if so, why ?


A lot of divers are pushing themselves, gear & their traning to the max.
This why we use these rules so that we can get the diver back to the suface.

>What does it mean if a diver is unable to follow a line back to the hole so
>that he has to be retrieved by the support diver ?    Where is his partner
and
>what is he doing ?
>This is another overhead environment with one or two additional hazards to
>deal with.
>If a pair of divers is able to achieve an acceptable level of self
sufficiency
>I see no reason to not use reels instead of a teather.   I believe that
self
>sufficiency will be safer than the remote buddy that the tender represents
as
>far as making it back to the hole is concerned.   However, as I pointed out
in
>my post, the presence of help on the surface is vital to the ability to
handle
>an emergency effectively in my view.
>
>What do European cave divers do about the temperatures ?   I don't know
>exactly what they are but I'm sure they pose a hazard.
>
>I am viewing all of this from afar - I have not dove ice since long before
>anyone knew much about it (and it was thin) and am in no position to tell
you
>how to do it so this is a genuine quest for understanding.   Is the use of
>tenders and teathers a compensation for the lack of self sufficiency on the
>part of the in water team and is the same degree of self sufficiency as
cave
>divers achieve possible in ice diving in your opinion.   If it is, then
would
>not reels be a viable option to a teather ?
>
>
>Chuck Boone


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