Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
This is ICE Diving not Cave diving. There are no place for reels, buddy lines or the absence of surface support. Ice diving is the single toughest environment on equipment that there is in the sport of diving. Not only do you have the in water temperatures to deal with, but the surface weather as well. To do an ice dive you need a min. of 4 divers: 2 diver 1 safety(BTW the safety is the best diver of the group) and a tender. You need one line per in water diver and one that is 1.5 as long. That is three lines in total. You need a harness under the BC with a locking carabeener(If you have to ditch the BC to untangle yourself you are still tethered). Ice dives after all, are fairly short 2X as cold (surface X water temp.) as regular cold water diving goes and are done only because we are a dedicated breed of diver that believe that our skin will dry up if you don't get in the water at least once a week 0-) These are the water condition that we are dealt and we make the best of them. As in regular diving their is nothing down there that is worth dying for, so do it as safe as possible and "do it right". I would real like to here from the cave divers out there " If cave water was 38*F would you still cave dive?" " Would you use the same gear?" "Go as often?" Randy Sullivan Sault Ste. Marie, Ont sulteck@ic*.ne* -----Original Message----- From: CHK BOONE <CHKBOONE@ao*.co*> To: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Date: Sunday, January 11, 1998 12:10 PM Subject: Re: Ice diving > >Steve, > >n a message dated 98-01-10 00:50:38 EST, you write: > ><< I agree with the three man team as being the best option but not always > attainable. > > where do you stand on the surface support issue is it neccesary or not? > I think that it may assist the dive but is not a necessity as long as > the ice is anchord a continuous line to the entrace is maintained, > proper gas management is observed and extreme depth is avoided(generally > most of the lakes we dive do not exceed 100feet so this is not an issue) > > SAFE DIVING > > STEVE >> > > >--------------------------------------------------------- > What you have said here is that a support crew is not a necessity as long >as everything goes as you hope it will. Well, you're absolutely right ! > >I know you did not mean it this way, so ; > > I see your point in questioning the need for the big support crew in light >of the fact that other overhead excursions, specifically cave, do well without >them. The only meaningful difference I can see in the two environments is >the fact that the exit can become plugged and poses a hazard to other users of >the waterway. > > If these frozen lake environments were actually huge rock rooms with a >single hole in the top would we dive them any differently than caves (other >than having someone to keep the hole clear in some cases and lights) ? > > It could be said that any support is a luxury and it could be said that >any need for support is a handicap. Support can make the work of diving >easier, improve the potential outcome of an emergency, and benifit the effort >with a broader range of experience and/or expertise , but it is never actually >necessary, so all judgments as to it's need will be subjective or qualified by >various factors. > > I tend to think like Bob Sherwood that a single highly reliable line for >the divers is a more reasonable setup than individual teathers for experienced >divers staying together. (this from a strictly accademic viewpoint, not >personal experience with ice diving) > > I see the dry surface crew's primary function as maintaining the itegrety >of the exit point and, as a side benifit, helping on the surface with a >disabled diver and emergency procedures. > There is a chance of a disabled diver slipping under the ice and drifting >away while attempting to get him out of the hole; a possible justification for >having a line on each diver or for a support diver considering that there may >be no one in the water to retrieve him if his partner is lost or also >disabled. So the teather and the support diver effectively extends the reach >of the surface crew who otherwise would be unable to do anything at all for >the divers unless they are in the hole. > > I don't see any inherent danger or problem with running a single reel of >tough line between two "experienced" ice divers as long as technique gards >against the danger of droping the reel and as long as you can feel the line >but I can see too many lines presenting a greater risk than bennifit for any >group of divers, especially those of lesser experience or expertise. > > I don't see any inherent danger in diving without a support crew as long >as the integrety of the anchor point and exit hole is insured. It seems >that you have the block of ice under reasonable control but I might make a >second anchor point near the hole but under the ice for my guide line to gaurd >against tampering by ice fishermen and kids or the chance of some piece of >wreckage blowing across the surface of the lake and disloging your spike. > > This is all a matter of risk control and acceptance but both the risk of >the dive itself and the risk of not being able to handle an emergency >effectively must be considered. I can see an inherent increase in the risk >of not being able to handle an emergency as effectively as is reasonably >possible without a support crew, which poses some legal problems and ethical >responsibilities for leaders taking others diving . > Can you get your buddy out of the hole alone if his drysuit is flooded >and/or he is unconscious? How much time will you loose by having to doff >equipment before you can work effectively? Is the fact that there will be no >one to send for help in such a case acceptable to both you and your partner ? > > >Anthony and David, > >You wrote, > >>Chuck, three of the five are up on the surface where they can talk to >>each other; only two are in the water. Rope pull signals are used for >>divers and tenders to communicate. > >Thanks, >Obviously, I was thinking like a cave diver, as you say, where the whole >"team" is in the water and thinking of the support crew as a seperate entity. > >Chuck Boone >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
Navigate by Author:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Subject Search Index]
[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]
[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]