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The 300' or 400' is only speaking logistically. I don't think I would ever use rope this long. I would just cut another hole. I would go out 200' with the safety diver with a rope at 300'. The safety only gets 200 feet until they signal for more. At this point if the distressed diver is not found then a sweep search pattern starts. I usually dive a buddy team but if something goes wrong I do not depend on buddy. I got into trouble I will get myself out. Randy Sullivan Sault Ste. Marie, Ont sulteck@ic*.ne* -----Original Message----- From: Steve Schinke <tekdive@ho*.co*> To: sulteck@ic*.ne* <sulteck@ic*.ne*> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; cavers@ww*.ge*.co* <cavers@ww*.ge*.co*> Date: Saturday, January 10, 1998 10:34 PM Subject: Re: ICE dives aren't Cave dives >Randy, >Definately some good points. Cold water regs with environmental kits >are a definate must(i use USD arctic regs and they have a great track >record with myself and anyone that i have ever talked to that has used >then for ICE). Band masks aren't really common to recreational divers >although they would be great(never used them under ice) We use AGAs with >orcatron com gear and find that it works great under ICE (we use them >frewuently for ICE rescue senarios) > >as far as your distance of three to four hundred feet of line. If you >dive with a safety diver does he have to have eight hundred feet of >line?? or do you dive solo with one guy on the surface dressed in with >the same amount of line???Or no sefety diver?? > >as far as people snagging ice screws that depends on where you dive >regardless there is always a secondary tie off to a screw placed on the >under side of the ice. > >I dive cold water all of the time as well(west cost of canada and >mountian lakes) and feel that if you have the skills then they can be >applied to the environment. I learned to ice dive reight after i got my >PADI advanced cours and had maybe ten dives under my belt that was a >long time ago in a galaxy far far away and i believe in moving to a >higher level when ability dictats. maybe this is the next level(and >maybe not) > >thanx for the input. > > >safe diving >STEVE >> >>The one thing that has to be realized is that this is ICE DIVING that >we are >>talking about, not WARM cave diving. These or two very different >styles of >>diving. There is no way the best cave diver on earth is going to do a >>11,000' push 300' down, under the ice. It can't be on done scuba or >RB's. >>Conversely a good ice diver isn't going to be able to do a cave dive >pulling >>a rope. That said the gear you use for ice dive is different . I don't >mean >>to be anti Hogarth rigging but the use of the very best COLD water >regs. is >>mandatory. >> >>The regs that I have seen fail the most are Decor(FFF & shut down), >>Sherwood(FFF) and scuba pro(FFF) ( in that order). These regs have in >the >>past shown me that they are prone to Free Flow Failure. The only types >of >>regs that I have not seen fail are my 18 yr. old USD conshelf (it is >bullet >>proof, used it for 8 yrs in all condition, no FFF) and the odin (only >had >>mine 6 months but have seen a thousand hours of performance and no >FFF). As >>for full face, I prefer the Band mask over the Aga or the EXO because I >have >>seen the latter two have FFF. I also believe the scuba gear only gets >one >>chance per day at the ice water. For the second dive on the fullface >>surface supplied Band mask, use coffee for a thawing agent. I find if >you >>have cream and sugar it works best for an anti fog. >> >>What is best for a cave environment is not best for ice diving. You >don't >>need a light that will burn for a day ;) , a reel with 1500' of line on >it >>or a scooter that does Mach 1.75. At best you could say that ice >diving is >>like cavern dives like Ginnie. The one big exception is that it is not >a >>closed off room, but I also didn't use a line to dive there. You have >to >>use 1/2" or 5/8" poly line with locking carabiners using a harness >under >>the BC, not cave line(cave line is for caves or deco bobbers). The >poly >>line serves two purposes. One, you what the line to float(so that it >says >>out of your way if it gets some slack). And two, you what it to pull up >>anything that you or the line is snagged on. The furthest >logistically I >>think you should get from the hole is 300 or 400' Max (line length not >>depth). Even those numbers are very high. >> >>The hole that you cut must have the ice chunks remove so that you can >>replace the hole when finished. If you put the chunks under the ice, >they >>may cause a snagging hazard. >> >>You have to have surface support the same way you need some one on the >boat. >>I once had to o watch a dive buddy fight a US boater for his dive flag >and >>float while on a dive. Can you imagine someone finding ice screws on >the ice >>would do? >> >>I can't figure out why some body would use a buddy line. That has to >be the >>most dangerous practice, short of deep air, known to man. The only >person I >>want to be tied to is on the surface feeling my pull signals. As for >line >>management with two lines in the water, yes, you have to. Ice diving >has >>more tasks involved for your diving pleasure. >> >>The plain fact is that ice diving is not cave diving. I would like to >here >>from a cave diver who dives in caves with water temps. approaching >freezing. >>I do well over 100 commercial, SAR and scuba dives a year, in all >weather >>condition and with water temp. on average at 40* F. It is much easier >for >>me to go and dive warm water than it is for those warm water divers >with >>your warm waters gear to dive cold water. >> >> >>Randy Sullivan >>Sault Ste. Marie, Ont >>sulteck@ic*.ne* >> >>-- >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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