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> But, cheaply made is not always the same as "cheap in price" - just > look at the neutraleak. I paid less for a NEW spectrum 14 than I've > seen people asking for the neutraleak USED! Yes but's it all inuendo and you know how numbers are, torture them long enough and they'll tell you what YOU want to hear. FWIW the best price I have seen on a new NL is $400 (in Fla). I've _heard_ that an S14 goes for $375 (I paid $275 for mine used). That's only a $25 difference (if you take the time to shop around). > Also, just because you're only diving to "x" feet today doesn't mean > you won't dive to "x+y" feet tomorrow. Why should you have to buy TWO > lights! Carl(and most of this post is not aimed at you), I agree, any diver (today) that is in the market, given only these two choices (I'm ignoring other lights for the sake of simplicity of argument) should choose the cylindrical one. Its made to go deeper, costs (very) slightly less, and has all the features of the NL. Both can be waist or butt mounted (I'm not advocating either method, just saying its possible). The S12 can come (optionally?) with underwater switchable heads, last I talked with DiveRite they were not offering this. what we don;t need though (IMO) is everyone running their mouth calling everyone who does own one of these things a "stroke". If the light currently meets all their diving needs (ie they are not exceeding the alleged good-working depth limits of the NL) then hey, they have a light that works well for them. Period. *IF* said diver needs to exceed the depth limits of the NL then the owner of the NL can (at worst) be called "shortsighted" for failing to plan ahead (but how many of us are wearing our first BC into the caves?) or "duped" by a salesperson who failed to inform the buyer that the product might be depth limited. This last case is the only thing I see worth getting excited about. The rest is just hot air. In none of the cases does the end- user deserve to be called a stroke. Need I search the archives to see how many times they have been recently, nah I think (hope) that one is obvious. Again, were I today buying a new light, I would (again) buy a cylindrical light. If however I walked into shop A and said I wanted a light, maybe even one of those square ones, and the shop owner said "hey I've heard they may have trouble when you get deep, plus (snicker) they're square" and I said "yeah, but I NEVER plan to go that (X') deep (I could do several years of wreck penetration off the NC coast without needing to)" and he said "well ok" and so I bought the square light then big deal. No one need presume they need to call me a stroke. Given THAT set of purchasing criteria, both lights are rather equal. Those are not *MY* criteria, I want to use this light for a long time. But if I exceed 130-140' in a cave in the next 2 years I'll be a bit surprised. So even if I had bought a NL, I'd have plenty of time (though perhaps a muddied conscience) to sell it and buy a new(er) cylindrical (maybe even the supposed new DR) light (though I am very happy with my AUL light). Nutshell: lighten up on the users/owners of the light, concentrate on determining what the real effective (safe) limitations of the light are(100'-150'?), and on making new purchasers aware of those limitations so they can make informed choices (though they may be different from yours). Also concentrate on discrediting those who recommend ANY product for use beyond its limitations. (lots of that going on here, but I think its gone a bit overboard) Mike
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