At 04:37 PM 4/6/2000 -0400, Dan L. Volker wrote:
>Sounds like a good time to discuss MANDATORY VO2 Max testing, with

Would you be kind enough to explian what there are , and where they are on
the scale relative to the average person ? No flaming , I am genuanly
interested .

Volker ? didn't we have a dive fitness discussion ?

>instructor minimums around 30 ml/kg of body weight.
>Sure the test would be a cost and a time problem for some, but when these
>instructors are "Responsible" for the lives they lead into a cave, this is
>the least they can do to certify a likelihood they will be still be alive to
>lead the students back after each dive. From what I have heard about
>Rennaker, it sounds like he would be closer to 5 or 10 ml./kg if he had no
>heart condition, and now that he has had an incident ( even though
>supposedly fixed) , he may be lower still.
>
>Dan Volker
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Trey [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]
>Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:41 PM
>To: Geoff Kelafant
>Cc: Tom Mount; Mike Bruic; cavers@cavers.com
>Subject: Re: Madison diving
>
>
>Geoff, good points, obvoiusly Bruic is dead right and standing up for
>it, and Tom is dead wrong and once again proving it.
>
>
>Geoff Kelafant wrote:
>>
>> What absurdity.  "Right to work", ADA and all that other stuff doesn't
>apply
>> if someone isn't otherwise qualified for the job in particular.  Actually,
>> since none of the instructors really "work" for IANTD/CDS etc. anyway, I
>> don't think any of this really applies.
>>
>> If it did, you would need to provide the examining physician with a
>detailed
>> description of what his "job" actually was and what the physical demands
>> are.  In this case the physician should be someone well versed in diving
>> medicine and the particular physical demands involved, not some guy who is
>> getting the wool pulled over his eyes or practices in the local doc in a
>> box.  I'm in the occupational medicine business and one thing I've learned
>> is that patients are rarely fully truthful when their "career" is on the
>> line.  Most physicians are poorly prepared or unwilling to address
>> occupational issues and even fewer have even a vague idea of the cardiac,
>> pulmonary and other stresses unique to diving.  A simple "note from the
>> doctor", a doctor whose qualifications are totally unknown to you is
>simply
>> unacceptable.
>>
>> I am interested in whatever a "fitness renewal program" entails.  Is it
>> simply a note or form?  Do they actually have to do something like a
>stress
>> test, running, biking,  swimming, etc.  Hmm... must be the IANTD
>instructors
>> I've seen were midcycle or in the remedial fitness program.
>>
>> When one of your instructors has a terminal event during training and
>takes
>> someone with him, I wonder what will happen?
>>
>> Geoff Kelafant MD MSPH FACOEM
>> Board Certified Occupational Medicine
>> US Navy Diving Medical Officer
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
>> To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
>> Cc: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 10:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: Madison diving
>>
>> > Tom, this is the kind of duck I would expect from you. Rennaker is a
>> > ridiculous fat slob - he just had a heart attack ( gee, I wonder why? ),
>> > and his "right to work" is C R A P. The asshole retired from his factory
>> > job over ten years ago, and is teaching diving on the side.
>> >
>> > Nice try, Tom.
>> >
>> > You and your organization do not know what the the word "fitness" means,
>> > and the fact is that I will bet you that Rennaker's heart rate will not
>> > drop the requisite bare minimum 12 beats per minute in one minute from
>> > exertion levels that is the known marker standard for predicting  a
>> > reasonable risk of less chance of a heart attack, let alone the 20 bpm
>> > "comfort" level for a low risk , or the 60 bpm that my heart rate drops.
>> > Forget that he is a fat slob who already had a heart attack.
>> >
>> > If Rennaker kills somebody now, you , the "doctor" and everyone else is
>> > going to lose - it is too obvious that this guy does not need to be
>> > doing this any more, and in my opinion, he never did.
>> >
>> > Prospective dive students have a "right" to a fit instructor, Tom, and
>> > you are behaving badly for tolerating and promoting this.
>> >
>> > Tom Mount wrote:
>> > >
>> > > To both of you
>> > >
>> > > All instructors with IANTD have to complete a MD medical and be signed
>> off
>> > > anytime their is a major illness. Bill has completed that. Bill also
>did
>> the
>> > > fitness swim requirements as well.
>> > >
>> > > Now I'm sure if you would like to legally challenge the doctor for
>> signing
>> > > him off you can do so. But remember there as a right to work law and
>you
>> may
>> > > wind up at the end of a lawsuit for you efforts from the MD and Bill.
>> > > We are bound to accept the determination of the MD as to Bill's
>fitness.
>> > >
>> > > Second IANTD unlike any other agency has a fitness renewal program as
>> you
>> > > know Mike and each instructor must complete it to be renewed. No other
>> > > agency including GUE does this.
>> > >
>> > > This is BCC'ed to our lawyer and insurance.
>> > >
>> > > Respectfully yours,
>> > > Tom Mount
>> > > CEO IANTD World HQ
>> > > http://www.iantd.com
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
>> > > To: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>
>> > > Cc: <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 6:14 PM
>> > > Subject: Re: Madison diving
>> > >
>> > > > Mike Bruic wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > George, here is a copy of the letter that went out to IANTD, NACD,
>> and
>> > > the
>> > > > > NSS/CDS. It was sent certified, return receipt, and I have the
>> > > > > acknowledgments of receipt in my files. When Rennaker does
>fuck-up,
>> I
>> > > hope
>> > > > > this letter will help any attorney crucify these assholes.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Bruic
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >     Mike, you are pissing in the wind with Mount and the rest of
>these
>> > > > hand-holders. Send it to his insurance agent and to his attorney,
>Bill
>> > > > Turbeville. Turbeville and the insurance company will make him do
>the
>> > > > right thing. I'll get you the insurance agency address.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>

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