Tom, you will have to ask JJ or go to their web site for "standards".
All I know is that I dive with them, and I could not use most of your
guys to make coffee . I know what kind of shape JJ's guys are in, and I
see some of yours out there who are clearly not even close to any kind
of shape at all.

Tom, you have pages and pages of "standards" - why have them if they are
not even remotely close to the reality of what is going on, if you are
not going to abide by them, and if you in fact will not enforce them?
And tell me that the NACD or the CDS has any such "requirements". That
would disqualify the whole lot. Just an IQ test alone would wipe out
cave diving instruction as we know it.

I know who Jablonksi allows to be GUE instructors, and I known why. I
know there are few of them, and I agree with that policy. You know damn
well it is the elite organization and you also know why. Tom, half of
them were on yet one more record setting cave dive just last weekned.

Those are the people that students want to learn from, not the heart
attacked slobs or the other dumb red necks, or the fence sitting
armchair experts . They want the real thing , and they can get it at
GUE.

You forget, Tom, I have nothing to to with any of this, I am not an
instructor other than to my own organization, and my opinion is all I
have. Too bad everyone knows it is well founded.

Funny, more people agree with me every day.


Tom Mount wrote:
> 
> Trey
> 
> You do make your own rules no doubt .and change them to fit your needs
> whenever it suits you .No I will not shut up ..
> 
> Your yelling and shouting Still did not answer the question and it is a real
> question.
> 
> Dan who I would think is GUE suggest that a Vo2 max test be required does
> GUE do it .
> 
> Does GUE have any standards for instructors. .This is not a attack as you
> may call it  is just a  question that I think deserves an answer.
> 
> Other than you saying GUE instructors are the best, how does the world know
> the instructor qualifications if there are no instructor standards.
> 
> Has anyone on this list seen a GUE instructor standard?
> 
> Does anyone know what it takes to be a GUE instructor?
> 
> What are the fitness requirements?
> 
> What are the experience requirements?
> 
> The diver standards look good but that still does not answer the question as
> to instructor standards
> 
> George how about answering thequestions instead of shouting and saying
> things like shut up, You of all people yell about instructor quality so you
> must be concerned as to GUE instructor standards
> 
> Respectfully yours,
> Tom Mount
> CEO IANTD World HQ
> http://www.iantd.com
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
> Cc: Dan L. Volker <dan@sf*.co*>; 'Geoff Kelafant' <kelafant@we*.co*>;
> 'Mike Bruic' <mikebruic@di*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 6:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Madison diving
> 
> > Tom, we make the rules. You shut up and listen. I don't see any of your
> > bozo strokes doing anything that any of the GUE guys do on a regular
> > basis.
> >
> > GUE is way out of your league, and you do not need to be yapping about
> > it.
> >
> > Tom Mount wrote:
> > >
> > > Dan
> > > Does GUE do it??
> > >
> > > Does GUE have any renewal physical requirements?
> > >
> > > There web page does not list instructor or instructor renewal
> requirements
> > > so the question is for real, no one knows what GUE has for instructor
> > > prerequisites or renewals
> > >
> > > Respectfully yours,
> > > Tom Mount
> > > CEO IANTD World HQ
> > > http://www.iantd.com
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Dan L. Volker <dan@sf*.co*>
> > > To: <trey@ne*.co*>; 'Geoff Kelafant' <kelafant@we*.co*>
> > > Cc: 'Tom Mount' <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>; 'Mike Bruic'
> > > <mikebruic@di*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 4:37 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Madison diving
> > >
> > > > Sounds like a good time to discuss MANDATORY VO2 Max testing, with
> > > > instructor minimums around 30 ml/kg of body weight.
> > > > Sure the test would be a cost and a time problem for some, but when
> these
> > > > instructors are "Responsible" for the lives they lead into a cave,
> this is
> > > > the least they can do to certify a likelihood they will be still be
> alive
> > > to
> > > > lead the students back after each dive. From what I have heard about
> > > > Rennaker, it sounds like he would be closer to 5 or 10 ml./kg if he
> had no
> > > > heart condition, and now that he has had an incident ( even though
> > > > supposedly fixed) , he may be lower still.
> > > >
> > > > Dan Volker
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Trey [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:41 PM
> > > > To: Geoff Kelafant
> > > > Cc: Tom Mount; Mike Bruic; cavers@cavers.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Madison diving
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Geoff, good points, obvoiusly Bruic is dead right and standing up for
> > > > it, and Tom is dead wrong and once again proving it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Geoff Kelafant wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > What absurdity.  "Right to work", ADA and all that other stuff
> doesn't
> > > > apply
> > > > > if someone isn't otherwise qualified for the job in particular.
> > > Actually,
> > > > > since none of the instructors really "work" for IANTD/CDS etc.
> anyway, I
> > > > > don't think any of this really applies.
> > > > >
> > > > > If it did, you would need to provide the examining physician with a
> > > > detailed
> > > > > description of what his "job" actually was and what the physical
> demands
> > > > > are.  In this case the physician should be someone well versed in
> diving
> > > > > medicine and the particular physical demands involved, not some guy
> who
> > > is
> > > > > getting the wool pulled over his eyes or practices in the local doc
> in a
> > > > > box.  I'm in the occupational medicine business and one thing I've
> > > learned
> > > > > is that patients are rarely fully truthful when their "career" is on
> the
> > > > > line.  Most physicians are poorly prepared or unwilling to address
> > > > > occupational issues and even fewer have even a vague idea of the
> > > cardiac,
> > > > > pulmonary and other stresses unique to diving.  A simple "note from
> the
> > > > > doctor", a doctor whose qualifications are totally unknown to you is
> > > > simply
> > > > > unacceptable.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am interested in whatever a "fitness renewal program" entails.  Is
> it
> > > > > simply a note or form?  Do they actually have to do something like a
> > > > stress
> > > > > test, running, biking,  swimming, etc.  Hmm... must be the IANTD
> > > > instructors
> > > > > I've seen were midcycle or in the remedial fitness program.
> > > > >
> > > > > When one of your instructors has a terminal event during training
> and
> > > > takes
> > > > > someone with him, I wonder what will happen?
> > > > >
> > > > > Geoff Kelafant MD MSPH FACOEM
> > > > > Board Certified Occupational Medicine
> > > > > US Navy Diving Medical Officer
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> > > > > To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
> > > > > Cc: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 10:48 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Madison diving
> > > > >
> > > > > > Tom, this is the kind of duck I would expect from you. Rennaker is
> a
> > > > > > ridiculous fat slob - he just had a heart attack ( gee, I wonder
> > > why? ),
> > > > > > and his "right to work" is C R A P. The asshole retired from his
> > > factory
> > > > > > job over ten years ago, and is teaching diving on the side.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nice try, Tom.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You and your organization do not know what the the word "fitness"
> > > means,
> > > > > > and the fact is that I will bet you that Rennaker's heart rate
> will
> > > not
> > > > > > drop the requisite bare minimum 12 beats per minute in one minute
> from
> > > > > > exertion levels that is the known marker standard for predicting
> a
> > > > > > reasonable risk of less chance of a heart attack, let alone the 20
> bpm
> > > > > > "comfort" level for a low risk , or the 60 bpm that my heart rate
> > > drops.
> > > > > > Forget that he is a fat slob who already had a heart attack.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If Rennaker kills somebody now, you , the "doctor" and everyone
> else
> > > is
> > > > > > going to lose - it is too obvious that this guy does not need to
> be
> > > > > > doing this any more, and in my opinion, he never did.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Prospective dive students have a "right" to a fit instructor, Tom,
> and
> > > > > > you are behaving badly for tolerating and promoting this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tom Mount wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To both of you
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All instructors with IANTD have to complete a MD medical and be
> > > signed
> > > > > off
> > > > > > > anytime their is a major illness. Bill has completed that. Bill
> also
> > > > did
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > fitness swim requirements as well.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now I'm sure if you would like to legally challenge the doctor
> for
> > > > > signing
> > > > > > > him off you can do so. But remember there as a right to work law
> and
> > > > you
> > > > > may
> > > > > > > wind up at the end of a lawsuit for you efforts from the MD and
> > > Bill.
> > > > > > > We are bound to accept the determination of the MD as to Bill's
> > > > fitness.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Second IANTD unlike any other agency has a fitness renewal
> program
> > > as
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > know Mike and each instructor must complete it to be renewed. No
> > > other
> > > > > > > agency including GUE does this.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is BCC'ed to our lawyer and insurance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Respectfully yours,
> > > > > > > Tom Mount
> > > > > > > CEO IANTD World HQ
> > > > > > > http://www.iantd.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> > > > > > > To: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>
> > > > > > > Cc: <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 6:14 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Madison diving
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike Bruic wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > George, here is a copy of the letter that went out to IANTD,
> > > NACD,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > NSS/CDS. It was sent certified, return receipt, and I have
> the
> > > > > > > > > acknowledgments of receipt in my files. When Rennaker does
> > > > fuck-up,
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > hope
> > > > > > > > > this letter will help any attorney crucify these assholes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bruic
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     Mike, you are pissing in the wind with Mount and the rest
> of
> > > > these
> > > > > > > > hand-holders. Send it to his insurance agent and to his
> attorney,
> > > > Bill
> > > > > > > > Turbeville. Turbeville and the insurance company will make him
> do
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > right thing. I'll get you the insurance agency address.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >

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