`35 ml /kg of body weight is average for a college aged person who is
physically active in sports, but not in any elite category. The same aged
nerd who lays on the couch and watches TV may average 25 ml/kg, provided he
is not a HFS.

Guys like George are around 50 ml/kg

Elite, Olympic level cross country skiers average the highest, with around
70-75 ml/kg of body weight.

A guy with a body fat over 30%, particularly if sedentary, would be
fortunate to reach 10 or 15 ml/kg.

VO2 max will predict the physical exertion potential of a diver, and the
existence of a high VO2 max will correlate to an increased ability to off
gas in deco---not by the VO2 max itself, but by the peripheral adaptations
which the training created---the training led to the high VO2 max.

Dan


-----Original Message-----
From: Samy Elashmawy [mailto:samelash@ix*.ne*.co*]
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 5:28 AM
To: Dan L. Volker; trey@ne*.co*; 'Geoff Kelafant'
Cc: 'Tom Mount'; 'Mike Bruic'; cavers@cavers.com
Subject: RE: Madison diving


At 04:37 PM 4/6/2000 -0400, Dan L. Volker wrote:
>Sounds like a good time to discuss MANDATORY VO2 Max testing, with

Would you be kind enough to explian what there are , and where they are on
the scale relative to the average person ? No flaming , I am genuanly
interested .

Volker ? didn't we have a dive fitness discussion ?

>instructor minimums around 30 ml/kg of body weight.
>Sure the test would be a cost and a time problem for some, but when these
>instructors are "Responsible" for the lives they lead into a cave, this is
>the least they can do to certify a likelihood they will be still be alive
to
>lead the students back after each dive. From what I have heard about
>Rennaker, it sounds like he would be closer to 5 or 10 ml./kg if he had no
>heart condition, and now that he has had an incident ( even though
>supposedly fixed) , he may be lower still.
>
>Dan Volker
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Trey [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]
>Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:41 PM
>To: Geoff Kelafant
>Cc: Tom Mount; Mike Bruic; cavers@cavers.com
>Subject: Re: Madison diving
>
>
>Geoff, good points, obvoiusly Bruic is dead right and standing up for
>it, and Tom is dead wrong and once again proving it.
>
>
>Geoff Kelafant wrote:
>>
>> What absurdity.  "Right to work", ADA and all that other stuff doesn't
>apply
>> if someone isn't otherwise qualified for the job in particular.
Actually,
>> since none of the instructors really "work" for IANTD/CDS etc. anyway, I
>> don't think any of this really applies.
>>
>> If it did, you would need to provide the examining physician with a
>detailed
>> description of what his "job" actually was and what the physical demands
>> are.  In this case the physician should be someone well versed in diving
>> medicine and the particular physical demands involved, not some guy who
is
>> getting the wool pulled over his eyes or practices in the local doc in a
>> box.  I'm in the occupational medicine business and one thing I've
learned
>> is that patients are rarely fully truthful when their "career" is on the
>> line.  Most physicians are poorly prepared or unwilling to address
>> occupational issues and even fewer have even a vague idea of the cardiac,
>> pulmonary and other stresses unique to diving.  A simple "note from the
>> doctor", a doctor whose qualifications are totally unknown to you is
>simply
>> unacceptable.
>>
>> I am interested in whatever a "fitness renewal program" entails.  Is it
>> simply a note or form?  Do they actually have to do something like a
>stress
>> test, running, biking,  swimming, etc.  Hmm... must be the IANTD
>instructors
>> I've seen were midcycle or in the remedial fitness program.
>>
>> When one of your instructors has a terminal event during training and
>takes
>> someone with him, I wonder what will happen?
>>
>> Geoff Kelafant MD MSPH FACOEM
>> Board Certified Occupational Medicine
>> US Navy Diving Medical Officer
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
>> To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
>> Cc: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 10:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: Madison diving
>>
>> > Tom, this is the kind of duck I would expect from you. Rennaker is a
>> > ridiculous fat slob - he just had a heart attack ( gee, I wonder
why? ),
>> > and his "right to work" is C R A P. The asshole retired from his
factory
>> > job over ten years ago, and is teaching diving on the side.
>> >
>> > Nice try, Tom.
>> >
>> > You and your organization do not know what the the word "fitness"
means,
>> > and the fact is that I will bet you that Rennaker's heart rate will not
>> > drop the requisite bare minimum 12 beats per minute in one minute from
>> > exertion levels that is the known marker standard for predicting  a
>> > reasonable risk of less chance of a heart attack, let alone the 20 bpm
>> > "comfort" level for a low risk , or the 60 bpm that my heart rate
drops.
>> > Forget that he is a fat slob who already had a heart attack.
>> >
>> > If Rennaker kills somebody now, you , the "doctor" and everyone else is
>> > going to lose - it is too obvious that this guy does not need to be
>> > doing this any more, and in my opinion, he never did.
>> >
>> > Prospective dive students have a "right" to a fit instructor, Tom, and
>> > you are behaving badly for tolerating and promoting this.
>> >
>> > Tom Mount wrote:
>> > >
>> > > To both of you
>> > >
>> > > All instructors with IANTD have to complete a MD medical and be
signed
>> off
>> > > anytime their is a major illness. Bill has completed that. Bill also
>did
>> the
>> > > fitness swim requirements as well.
>> > >
>> > > Now I'm sure if you would like to legally challenge the doctor for
>> signing
>> > > him off you can do so. But remember there as a right to work law and
>you
>> may
>> > > wind up at the end of a lawsuit for you efforts from the MD and Bill.
>> > > We are bound to accept the determination of the MD as to Bill's
>fitness.
>> > >
>> > > Second IANTD unlike any other agency has a fitness renewal program as
>> you
>> > > know Mike and each instructor must complete it to be renewed. No
other
>> > > agency including GUE does this.
>> > >
>> > > This is BCC'ed to our lawyer and insurance.
>> > >
>> > > Respectfully yours,
>> > > Tom Mount
>> > > CEO IANTD World HQ
>> > > http://www.iantd.com
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
>> > > To: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>
>> > > Cc: <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 6:14 PM
>> > > Subject: Re: Madison diving
>> > >
>> > > > Mike Bruic wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > George, here is a copy of the letter that went out to IANTD,
NACD,
>> and
>> > > the
>> > > > > NSS/CDS. It was sent certified, return receipt, and I have the
>> > > > > acknowledgments of receipt in my files. When Rennaker does
>fuck-up,
>> I
>> > > hope
>> > > > > this letter will help any attorney crucify these assholes.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Bruic
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >     Mike, you are pissing in the wind with Mount and the rest of
>these
>> > > > hand-holders. Send it to his insurance agent and to his attorney,
>Bill
>> > > > Turbeville. Turbeville and the insurance company will make him do
>the
>> > > > right thing. I'll get you the insurance agency address.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>

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