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to all this is an issue that needs lots of attiantion because there is many things that should be brought in to consideration ex health weight mental ability and abilty to perform just to name a few and better standers should be out there but there not so maybe some people should get togather and decide what the standards and guidlines should be followed so tragic accidents do not happen James GarlooEnt wrote: > Subj: Re: Tragic technicaldiving > Date: 03/03/98 > To: dlv@ga*.ne* > > actually dan your approach to the "guidlines" & your overall lack of > concern for people that are (let's call them)physicaly challenged is what > set the tone for this entire thread. > you must really understand that as Tom said in his post that there are people > that don't fit into your profile that can more than adequatly perform the > tasks needed for > tech diving. there are also many "perfect specimens'' that without the correct > training or the proper experience are a danger to themselves & all around > them. > > now they may be in the wrong place because they have fooled the instructor or > visa-versa, into thinking they belong there. > > it's comforting to know that you at least are capable of keeping yourself > perfect for life. i & many others have setbacks & changes in our lives that > might affect our weight or over all conditioning. yes in a perfect world we > should all reevaluate ourselves to decide if we should still be doing what > weve been doing for the past ten,twenty or thirty years. unfortunately not > everyone is willing to make those decisions, easily. so what happens then > "someone else" makes it for them? > > the ultimate decision for me to dive (deep - shallow -on air - on gas) is mine > to make the ultimate penalty will be paid by me. i don't believe that the > instructor or the dive boat or the agency or anyone else is responsible for my > acts in the water. > > if i were to demonstrate by my actions or (lack of ) ability that i could not > perform the functions of the dive then i would want it brought to my > attention. perhapse i am being foolish attempting the dive. > > i know you would like to limit your comments to tech dives only but once you > open the gate..........! > > hank > > In a message dated 98-03-02 13:33:36 EST, you write: > > << Subj: Re: Tragic technicaldiving > Date: 98-03-02 13:33:36 EST > From: dlv@ga*.ne* (Dan Volker) > To: GarlooEnt@ao*.co* (GarlooEnt), techdiver@aq*.co*, > wreckdiver@wreckdiver.com > CC: Wahoojan@ao*.co*, Wahoo2001@ao*.co*, CAPTZEROOO@ao*.co*, Ussfriel@ao*.co* > > > > - > Subject: Re: Tragic technicaldiving > > > > >dan > >as you can see by the "few" responses that the cocept of "you" setting > >the requirements for qualifications is not going over well. > > I NEVER suggested I would be the person to "set" the standards. I am > however, making suggestions which could help the people who ultimately would > set the standards. > > > >we all seem to agree on the fact that the instructor & the instruction > should > >be unquestionably of the highest quality. > > Big problem. Some instructors are great, and some stink. Many are just OK. > And the current fitness standards are a poor tool to help the instructors, > with their job of shaping people into tech divers. > > >i have always had a problem with people who think the they are perfect (or > >always > >correct) & that they are the ones who should decide for everyone else what > is > >the > >right way to do things. > >you posed a bunch of questions to me about my grandmother & other items > that > >i think have been more eloquently addressed by others (thak you jammer). > >i have one for you. > > > > you are inn your perfect phyisical condition (i know this because i > have > >read your > >chest pounding discusions with tom :-) , but what happens to you ten years > >from now if you happen to fall off the wagon & gain 20 or 25 lbs? > > I am in many different "lifestyle sports". None are impact sports like > running, tennis, or racketball, etc., so I will be able to do all of them > into my 70's ( cycling, kayaking, freediving, martial arts, mountain biking) > .. As long as I enjoy all of these sports, my general fitness level will be > high. > > > > >(unfortunatly in life things change & you might get sick & gain the wt or > you > >might have a nervous breakdown & start eating uncontrolably:-). > >who will decide for you hat that point that you are fit or not to continue > to > >dive? > >are you actually proposing that we should only "control" the new people but > >forget > >about the current divers? > > Trying to "uncertify" people would be a nightmare. But if enough > physiological work is done, fitness standards can be published. Each of us > can use them to help us judge whether we are ok to tech dive or not---and if > it looks like we are not, then we should have good targets already defined > for us. > > > > > >there are already physical specifications in all of the programs that i am > >aware of. > >i see no reason to change them. the istructors should be capable of > >determining if a person is physicaly able to complet the certification & do > >the dives (in a safe manor). > > > Current fitness standards fail to adress the more important issues of gas > exchange. Even the best instructors need more help with a tool that can do > this, and there are plenty of "bad" instructors, who look like poster boys > for dangerously low gas exchange rates. And these guys will ignore fitness, > because right now they are allowed to. > > >yes i agree with all who question the ability of instructors who "cheat" on > >that responsibility. > > > >we all are disturbed by the people that die in this sport no matter what > level > >of diving they have reached. but i hate to tell you that the number > (although > >even one is too many) is not "huge" as you said. the diving related deaths > in > >the entire world has been under 100 for years. the huge number of those > occur > >at depths below 130ft > > I'm not making these arguements for recreational diving---the mandatory > VO2max tests-----this is for tech. And if you look at the TDI deaths alone, > in the last few years, you will see how far off you are on the important > statistics. > > > > >deep diving has its problems as does all of diving. IMHO the biggest > problem > >is lack of experience not lack of conditioning. this is a problem that is > >rampant at all levels of diving today. > >hank > > > > Fitness is only one small element of tech diving. Repeat...fitness is only > one small element of tech diving.....but it can't be ignored. Right now, > for all practical purposes, it IS being ignored. > > Regards, > Dan Volker > South Florida Dive Journal > http://www.sfdj.com/ > The Internet magazine for u/w photography and mpeg video > > > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aq*.co*'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aq*.co*'. > > > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aq*.co*'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aq*.co*'. > > > ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
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