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paul. as an Arkie(i'm making that assumption based on some of your comments). please don't be such a blatant pompous ass, & please don't pander to the sympathy vote on the issue. first off the arkies as a group are the biggest bunch of blatant grave robbers that have ever walked the face o the earth. i am not going to reintegrate the questions i raised in my first response to you (which you have conveniently not answered). you as most people that spout off about leaving things to be viewed & etc etc. have not got the slightest clue as to what it tacks to "strip" a wreck. we have a wreck in our neck of the woods that has only been down since 1918. divers have been taking things off it since the early 50's. it has been visited by over 500,000 divers (a conservative guess). according to your totally unfounded fears everything should be gone & there should be no reason to dive this magnificent wreck any longer. well pal once again you are wrong. there are thousands of artifacts still there (including portholes) , how could this be? because the amount of "treasures on the wreck is so enormous that it can never be "picked clean". this is just one measly 500 foot armored cruiser, Truck has over 50 ships many larger & some were freighters carrying supplies (more treasures). i & many other divers don't see a problem with recovering & displaying artifacts such as those. BTW i & all of my friends know the difference between an artifact & a human remain. we have no desire to remove & display human remains for the public to see. CAN YOU SAY THE SAME FOR THE ARKIES??? dive on & on hank In a message dated 97-01-27 14:10:18 EST, you write: << Subj: Re: perspective Date: 97-01-27 14:10:18 EST From: pettennude@us*.ne* (Paul E. Pettennude) To: JS1SUBAQUA@ao*.co* CC: wreckdiver@wreckdiver.com Group, I don't consider the Andrea Doria to be of archaeological value nor is the Luisitania or any of the large German warships sunk during World War II. I think they could be mapped and photographed and their cargos (or what is left of them examined) but that's the limit. However as I explain below, I am against removing artifacts from ships where people have died. On the otherhand the wrecks at Truk Lagoon are a national treasure simply because this is a popular international dive site. I wouldn't want anybody walking off with the attractions. The other point is, people died on these wrecks and although their remains have been in the process of removal, nevertheless we should respect the grave sites. I really don't think it is appropriate for divers to go artifact hunting on historic wrecks where people have died. It's like stealing the flowers off their graves. Paul At 10:10 AM 1/27/97 -0500, you wrote: >Hank ----- In a message dated 97-01-27 00:56:55 EST, you write: > ><<<< he dishes & artifacts recovered from the Andrea Doria are things that no > diver (other than maybe 500) would ever get an opportunity to see if they > could get to where they were. these artifacts have now been seen in tv >shows, > magazines, videos, TV & books by millions of people. None of this was done >by > Arkies it was done by us the looters the despoilers of the wrecks. >> > >Hank, I couldnt agree with you more. As you know SUB AQUA has published over >500 articles on wrecks in the past 6 years. We always show the pictures of >the artifacts. We estimate that there have been over 10,000,000 viewings of >artifacts but just our magazine alone over the years. > >For the number crunchers (avg issue 22,000 readers X 500 articles) > >On top of that you know those great Andrea Doria Dishes I got right before >that section of the wreck closed up? Well I estimate that over the past 5 >years no less than 150 non-Andrea Doria divers have eaten off of them in our >home. Everything from Ed Uditis eating pizza off them with Evie and Billy to >the woman we had just certified recently who will NEVER ever get to dive the >Doria. > >Archaeology has its place but when something has been fully documented as in >modern day ocean liners, and war ships (of which we have mil specs on and >photographs) whats the big deal? > >As Mel Fisher told us --- An Emerald wouldn't be worth so much if pretty >girls didn't like em so much." "But if we leave em on the bottom or locked >away in a vault they are worthless." > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Please send messages for the WreckDiver list to: wreckdiver@wreckdiver.com Send subscription and help requests to: wreckdiver-request@wreckdiver.com +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
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