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Subject: re: Tech Site/Alan Wright Rick Willliams wrote: > As I placed in my latest post, the information will be made available > and concurrently, perhaps even before the printed version. The post I was responding to suggested that it was highly unlikely that the information would be available here. I can't anticipate future postings. > >It also seems wrong to ask us to supply information on sites and > >countries Rick has never been to so that he can publish a book. > > Mr. Wright is making a few assumption that are incorrect on the face. > I have been diving in many areas of the UK, Australia, Asia, and South/ > Central America as well as my own country. I don't see anything about mainland Europe or Africa, so my statement above is still valid unless you are going to exclude those countries you haven't been to. Sorry, but I feel a little pedantic behaviour is necessary here :-) I never suggested that you had never dived outside the US. > I don't know what Mr. Wright invisioned, but if he looked at the > submission form, this is a catalogue or directory, not a novel, > nor a travel guide. He would have if it had arrived before he sent his message. Your original message used the word "book". I notice it has now become a "catalogue". I hope your book ... sorry, catalogue ... eh sorry directory is a little more consistent in its terminology. > >It seems to me you are planning to get the internet to write your > >book for you and that doesn't seem right to me. And we haven't even > >discussed who'll be making money out of this. > > There are probably no more than 200 subscribers to the techdiver-l > list. If I depended on the net doing the job I'd be old and grey. That wasn't the impression I got from your message and given the private email I have received I was certainly not alone in my impression. > In fact Sir, I would be more than happy to leave you out of it > entirely. Your prerogative. > The net however would allow certain areas and sites to be featured > which are not common knowledge. Thus it would be unfair for the net to be deprived of any of this information - one of my original points. I would have thought that one of your priorities would be to ensure that info received from the net was available to the net. > As far as income goes, I'm not sure I'll make anything. I'm not saying > I won't, but there is no $100 thousand dollar contract for a book that > at the very best would have an audiance of maybe 5,000. Then what is your motivation for going to a publisher. There are other ways to make information available. Why not submit it to Aqua-Corps? Perhaps there is some sense of personal achievement in having something published in your own name. I can understand that, but I would have thought that part of that achievement would be to have experience of as many of the sites as possible. > Besides Mr. Wright, > who was paying your salary as wrote all that stuff? What has this got to do with anything? I was discussing using the net for commercial gain. I don't gain anything on a commercial basis from the net. > >Give full credit to each contributor for their ork, not just some > >note at the front of the book thanking a great long list of people > >for contributing with no real idea of what they did or what they > >really contributed. You may even end up with somethin useful like > >the Mixed Gas book - and if you don't rush it too much it may even > >be correct, unlike the Mixed Gas book :-). > > My Mr. Wright, why is your vitriol so high? I'm not sure exactly which bit you think is vitriolic but if it is about the MG book then I have to say that IMHO it is not a piece of high quality publishing. Lots of good information but someone should at least have spell checked and proof read it. The number of mistakes and the standard of some of the English is appalling. > Again, if you viewed the data form, at the very bottom is > "Submitted by" You want credit for a datafile record, yu got it! Hopefully I've already answered this. > >Actually I've considered this, as I suppose many others have too. > >I think the difference with me would be that I would like to see > >it done as an information sharing, nonprofit exercise, purely to > >collate all that information and make it available in one place. > >In fact, I'm sorely tempted to suggest it. How about the > >Australians doing an Australian guide and we can do a European one. > >It makes more sense than getting an American to do it. You guys in > >the US can do a US one. Then we can talk to a publisher and issue > >a box set :-) > > I have no problem with that idea at all. However, the publisher > who will make this available to a lot more people than us morally > superior holders of the information edge will, may object to no > profit. If you have no problem with it then why not distribute it via a less commercial avenue, for example, via the magazines which many scuba agencies distribute free (or as part of their membership) to their members. Oh and cut out the "morally superior" rubbish, I'm delighted to see net information distributed as widely as possible provided it is free. > (BTW, you still sore over the War of Independence..grin) What's that got to do with me - I'm Scotch :-) We are still fighting for independence - every other year at Murrayfield :-) :-) After that embarrassment by the All Blacks we have to win this year to retain some pride <weep> > >alternatively, how about everyone sending me their experiences of > >wreck diving in the US and I'll publish the "Master Guide to US > >wrecks". It's no worse than what Rick is proposing. > > Mr. Wright, please give me a blanking break! You want to > write about US wrecks ... But then I'm going to sit back before you > do one darn thing and I'm going to harp, and bitch and whine all > before I have any idea of what's going on. So Mr. Wright, write your > book! A trifle over stated perhaps. Temptation to harp, bitch and whine declined, but only after extraordinary effort of self control :-) > >If this exercise were simply to build a publicly available database > >then fine but I'm absolutely against doing it for commercial reasons. > >If, after the database is built, someone thinks it is a good idea to > >make the information available to a wider audience in the form of a > >book then we'd have to discuss it. > > If Mr. Wright weren't so quick to vent his opinions, he would have > known it will be available. Besides that, I like to know who > Mr. Wright is speaking for when he places himself as the arbitor (we'd) > of others toward this work Again I must point out that it was not clear from the original message that the information would be available. Also, "we" refers to all contributors. I would like to think that "we" would discuss the commercial use of information posted here by others. I assume from your objection that you do not feel "we" should discuss it. I didn't think I was acting as arbiter, I just feel it is common decency to ask before you publish something written by another. > Mr. Wright, I have been diving with many BSAC Club Divers here and > in your country. I have been with CMAS Divers, here..there and yonder. What has BSAC got to do with me? BSAC is not the regulatory body in Scotland. I am not a BSAC member nor in a CMAS affiliated club. > I know for example that US cave practices differ here and there on > techniques. Wreck techniques vary . Can I possibly do something > that will keep you, your nails and cross away from me? Well for a start you may know that US cave and wreck practices vary but this was about non-US sites. I see nothing about you having a wide and varied experience of non-US wrecks and caves. I have seen nothing to indicate that you understand Scottish wreck diving or French Caves. Phrases like: "Penetration Dives beyond natural light zone or out of sight of exit point" don't give me confidence that you have done much wreck diving around here. > >You cannot look at the training schedules and judge the > >effectiveness of an agency or the practices in a country. As we all > >repeat to every novice on rec.scuba; it is not the agency it is the > >people from it that count ... > > First, please don't place limits on my ability to do something when > you know nothing of my background. I think I can make a fair assesment > of an organizations effectiveness based on the product they produce as > well as things like training schedules. Thank you very much Sir! Not true. I read your intro to the techdiver group. Also it can be misleading to judge an organisation on a very limited view of what it produces. However, this is a well trodden path on the net and it has probably all been written before. > If you seriously think that the US has the most regulated diving in the > world, you Sir have not travelled much! I can name at least 5 countries > where possesion of scuba equipment would get you shot! Or countries where > the deco tables you use are prescribed by the government! We ask for cert > cards and you would to if your had our damn lawyers! I'd be interested in the names of the countries, but what has that got to do with things. A regulation stating that use of scuba is illegal rather limits the number of regulations you can have about scuba diving. Also I trust we are discussing recreational scuba here and not commercial regulations. > R. Willaims I'm trying very hard not to be childish and point out that you should learn to spell your own name before you attempt to write a book - but I guess that's just the way I am :-) Sorry! >:-> Alan
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