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Well, JT , that sounds real good coming from somebody who turns every dive
into a risky situation, but when people are told that devices are safe by
the manufacturer and the training agencies and all the people who think that
a CCR will "level the playing field", the odds are that these people will
believe it - at least until and unless they get the real story.
I personally think you jumped into this along with "Christina" because you
thought that hammering these people was a way of getting at me. I don't even
know them, but I have heard their stories, and now so has everyone else.
They are saying the same thing about CCRs that you and I are saying, and the
same thing about the Buddy that Christina and I are saying.
AP Valves made all high quality stuff right up to where they started making
the Buddy. True, it was bullshit stroke stuff, but high quality, and having
seen plenty of James Bond movies, you know how the Brits love their
trinkets. I mean, if you ever rode in a Rolls Royce, you would not get on a
jet that uses RR engines, but if you ever rode on a jet with RR engines, you
might buy a Rolls Royce car - that's about what we have "hear" as you would
say.
-----Original Message-----
From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 4:15 PM
To: George Irvine; techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: RE: Nic Gotto Inquest
The only dumbass is the one who will risk his life on an unproven piece of
equipment and not think there is any risk.
At 06:31 AM 3/24/03 -0500, George Irvine wrote:
Dumbass, she was talking about scrubber breakthroughs, you ignorant
moron. What he did not know and was not told is that this is an easy
calculation to within minutes on a properly designed unit, a designation
which obviously does not apply to the Buddy Inspiration. The scrubber is
uselessly small and inefficient.
The Buddy crowd then tried to concoct some issue with "trimix" being the
problem with the unit, which is utter nonsense.
The Buddy was never properly tested prior to it being produced or it
would never have been produced. They molded parts and set production and
painted themselves into a corner, not that any of them has the ability ,
resources or information to do otherwise.
The vast number of aftermarket "fixes" to this thing are themselves all
the argument against it that it needs. Kevin Jurgenson and the late Will
Smithers came up with all kinds of remedies for it, but the design is so
flawed that all their modifications merely improve the quality of the
components and set other automatic features to prevent obvious accidents
while the underlying problems are still present.
-----Original Message-----
From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 7:01 PM
To: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: Nic Gotto Inquest
Your post go no where.........dead is dead and divers who get
involved with technical diving should accept the risk.......families should
be involved and informed by the diver before he takes risk not after he
dies. >that Nic was a *pioneer* (but NOT testing a prototype) pioneer = one
that originates or helps open up a new line of thought or activity
In order to be a pioneer you must accept risk because it is NEW
New "key words"....unfamiliar, not accustom
At 08:08 PM 3/21/03 +1100, Christian Gerzner wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:19:11 -0500, Capt JT
<captjt@mi*.co*> wrote:
I wrote:
> >And, apropos the current discussion, your point is? You appear
to be
> >implying that Nic Gotto couldn't dive to begin with, hoped it
would
> >make him something he was not, was a moron and an accident
waiting to
> >happen? Really?
> I have never met Nic or even talked to him and was not referring
to him
> directly ,
No doubt, yet you come across as all-knowing, charging across the
landscape on your trusty steed. Wouldn't it then have been a
rather
good idea to change the subject line? After all, it still refers
to
Nic Gotto?
Couldn't Michelle Gotto have drawn the very same conclusions as I
did
- as to your inferences? Since you had already firmly implanted
both
feet into mouth where Michelle is concerned, don't you think that
might have been a good idea?
JT, your insensitivity, your braggadocio, your lack of compassion
is
quite simply breathtaking. I think you need to take stock of
yourself
before it's too late, but then that might well be the case
already.
Sorry, that's a cheap shot but I really can't help myself on this
occasion.
I suggest, as a start, that you re-read before sending something
and
at least, at the very least, ask yourself whether what you have
written will be interpreted in the way you intend it to be. Mind,
I
really don't know whether that'll do any good but it's a start.
> but since he is doing a permanent 6ft deco stop I will never get
> to know him, ask him, or anything. If I could ask him, I think I
would ask
> "was it worth it"......
It still doesn't seem to have dawned on you, in spite of all that
has
been written, that Nic was a *pioneer* (but NOT testing a
prototype)
on this thing, that its reputation as a seriously questionable
piece
of kit HAD NOT YET BEEN ESTABLISHED (upper case to get your
attention). Hello? Are you reading the same posts that I am?
Tell me, do you read and seek to understand the posts of others
before
putting either or both feet back into mouth? From this viewing
angle
it sure doesn't look like it.
Now, would you care to answer my response to you as follows:
> > > On trips I organize there are only a select few I let on
with
> > > a RB and then I have certain rules they must agree to and
> > > they were getting it done on OC before they got a RB.
> > So first of all you challenge anyone to prove ... oh ... I get
it,
> > the RB divers are NEVER your buddies? But subject to *your*
> > rules that a select few must agree to, that's OK, these select
> > few can then dive with you?
> >
> > What apparently gives you the right to be the final arbiter of
> > whether a RB diver can, or cannot, dive with your group? Oh,
> > you're an expert on RBs? But you don't dive them. Or is your
> > criterion the fact that they were getting it done on OC before
> > they got a RB? If so, that's quite a call.
Christian
--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get
in the water"
Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/
Email captjt@mi*.co*
"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
the water"
Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/
Email captjt@mi*.co*
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D384595300-25032003><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Well,=20
JT , that sounds real good coming from somebody who turns every dive =
into a=20
risky situation, but when people are told that devices are safe by the=20
manufacturer and the training agencies and all the people who think that =
a CCR=20
will "level the playing field", the odds are that these people will =
believe it -=20
at least until and unless they get the real story.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D384595300-25032003><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D384595300-25032003><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I=20
personally think you jumped into this along with "Christina" because you =
thought=20
that hammering these people was a way of getting at me. I don't even =
know them,=20
but I have heard their stories, and now so has everyone else. They are =
saying=20
the same thing about CCRs that you and I are saying, and the same thing =
about=20
the Buddy that Christina and I are saying.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D384595300-25032003><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D384595300-25032003><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>AP=20
Valves made all high quality stuff right up to where they started making =
the=20
Buddy. True, it was bullshit stroke stuff, but high quality, and having =
seen=20
plenty of James Bond movies, you know how the Brits love their trinkets. =
I mean,=20
if you ever rode in a Rolls Royce, you would not get on a jet that uses =
RR=20
engines, but if you ever rode on a jet with RR engines, you might buy a =
Rolls=20
Royce car - that's about what we have "hear" as you would=20
say.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Capt JT=20
[mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 24, 2003 =
4:15=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> George Irvine; =
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20
Nic Gotto Inquest<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>The only dumbass is the one
who =
will=20
risk his life on an unproven piece of equipment and not think there is =
any=20
risk. <BR><BR>At 06:31 AM 3/24/03 -0500, George Irvine
wrote:<BR><FONT =
face=3Darial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">Dumbass, she was talking about scrubber =
breakthroughs, you ignorant moron. What he did not know and was not =
told is=20
that this is an easy calculation to within minutes on a properly =
designed=20
unit, a designation which obviously does not apply to the Buddy =
Inspiration.=20
The scrubber is uselessly small and inefficient. =
</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT=20
face=3Darial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The Buddy crowd then tried to =
concoct some=20
issue with "trimix" being the problem with the unit, which is utter=20
nonsense.</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT face=3Darial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>The=20
Buddy was never properly tested prior to it being produced or it =
would never=20
have been produced. They molded parts and set production and painted =
themselves into a corner, not that any of them has the ability , =
resources=20
or information to do otherwise.</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT =
face=3Darial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The vast number of aftermarket "fixes" to =
this thing=20
are themselves all the argument against it that it needs. Kevin =
Jurgenson=20
and the late Will Smithers came up with all kinds of remedies for =
it, but=20
the design is so flawed that all their modifications merely improve =
the=20
quality of the components and set other automatic features to =
prevent=20
obvious accidents while the underlying problems are still =
present.</FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=3Dtahoma size=3D2>
<DL>
<DD>-----Original Message-----=20
<DD>From:</B> Capt JT [<A href=3D"mailto:captjt@mi*.co*"=20
eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:captjt@mi*.co*</A>]=20
<DD>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 23, 2003 7:01 PM=20
<DD>To:</B> techdiver@aquanaut.com=20
<DD>Subject:</B> Re: Nic Gotto Inquest<BR><BR></FONT>
<DD>Your post go no where.........dead is dead and divers who =
get=20
involved with technical diving should accept the =
risk.......families=20
should be involved and informed by the diver before he takes =
risk not=20
after he dies. >that Nic was a *pioneer* (but NOT =
testing a=20
prototype) pioneer =3D one that originates or helps open up a =
new line of=20
thought or activity </B>
<DD>In order to be a pioneer you must accept risk because it is =
NEW=20
<DD>New </B>"key words"....</B>unfamiliar, not =
accustom<BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DD></B>=20
<DD> At 08:08 PM 3/21/03 +1100, Christian Gerzner wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">
<DD>On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:19:11 -0500, Capt JT=20
<captjt@mi*.co*> wrote:<BR><BR>
<DD>I wrote:<BR><BR>
<DD>> >And, apropos the current discussion, your point =
is? You=20
appear to be=20
<DD>> >implying that Nic Gotto couldn't dive to begin =
with,=20
hoped it would=20
<DD>> >make him something he was not, was a moron and an =
accident waiting to=20
<DD>> >happen? Really?=20
<DD>=20
<DD>> I have never met Nic or even talked to him and was =
not=20
referring to him=20
<DD>> directly ,<BR><BR>
<DD>No doubt, yet you come across as all-knowing, charging =
across the=20
<DD>landscape on your trusty steed. Wouldn't it then have been =
a=20
rather=20
<DD>good idea to change the subject line? After all, it still =
refers=20
to=20
<DD>Nic Gotto?<BR><BR>
<DD>Couldn't Michelle Gotto have drawn the very same =
conclusions as I=20
did=20
<DD>- as to your inferences? Since you had already firmly =
implanted=20
both=20
<DD>feet into mouth where Michelle is concerned, don't you =
think that=20
<DD>might have been a good idea?<BR><BR>
<DD>JT, your insensitivity, your braggadocio, your lack of =
compassion=20
is=20
<DD>quite simply breathtaking. I think you need to take stock =
of=20
yourself=20
<DD>before it's too late, but then that might well be the case =
already.=20
<DD>Sorry, that's a cheap shot but I really can't help myself =
on this=20
occasion.<BR><BR>
<DD>I suggest, as a start, that you re-read before sending =
something=20
and=20
<DD>at least, at the very least, ask yourself whether what you =
have=20
<DD>written will be interpreted in the way you intend it to =
be. Mind,=20
I=20
<DD>really don't know whether that'll do any good but it's a=20
start.<BR><BR>
<DD>> but since he is doing a permanent 6ft deco stop I =
will never=20
get=20
<DD>> to know him, ask him, or anything. If I could ask =
him, I=20
think I would ask=20
<DD>> "was it worth it"......<BR><BR>
<DD>It still doesn't seem to have dawned on you, in spite of =
all that=20
has=20
<DD>been written, that Nic was a *pioneer* (but NOT testing a=20
prototype)=20
<DD>on this thing, that its reputation as a seriously =
questionable=20
piece=20
<DD>of kit HAD NOT YET BEEN ESTABLISHED (upper case to get =
your=20
<DD>attention). Hello? Are you reading the same posts that I=20
am?<BR><BR>
<DD>Tell me, do you read and seek to understand the posts of =
others=20
before=20
<DD>putting either or both feet back into mouth? From this =
viewing=20
angle=20
<DD>it sure doesn't look like it.<BR><BR>
<DD>Now, would you care to answer my response to you as=20
follows:<BR><BR>
<DD>> > > On trips I organize there are only a select =
few I=20
let on with=20
<DD>> > > a RB and then I have certain rules they =
must agree=20
to and=20
<DD>> > > they were getting it done on OC before they =
got a=20
RB.<BR><BR>
<DD>> > So first of all you challenge anyone to prove =
... oh ...=20
I get it,=20
<DD>> > the RB divers are NEVER your buddies? But =
subject to=20
*your*=20
<DD>> > rules that a select few must agree to, that's =
OK, these=20
select=20
<DD>> > few can then dive with you?=20
<DD>> >=20
<DD>> > What apparently gives you the right to be the =
final=20
arbiter of=20
<DD>> > whether a RB diver can, or cannot, dive with =
your group?=20
Oh,=20
<DD>> > you're an expert on RBs? But you don't dive =
them. Or is=20
your=20
<DD>> > criterion the fact that they were getting it =
done on OC=20
before=20
<DD>> > they got a RB? If so, that's quite a =
call.<BR><BR>
<DD>Christian=20
<DD>--=20
<DD>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to=20
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.=20
<DD>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to=20
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
</DD></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>
<DD>"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you =
have to get=20
in the water"<FONT color=3D#0000ff>=20
<DD>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & =
more=20
<DD> Web Site <A href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"=20
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</A>=20
<DD>Email captjt@mi*.co*</FONT>=20
</DD></DL></U></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>"You can't learn to
dive on the =
net,=20
sooner or later you have to get in the water"<BR><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><U>Your=20
Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more =
<BR> Web=20
Site <A href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"=20
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com</A><A =
href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"=20
eudora=3D"autourl">/<BR></A>Email =20
=
captjt@mi*.co*<BR><BR></FONT></U></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><
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