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Jim, you are correct. If Michelles post will help her deal with her loss and serve as a wake up call to others, that is a good thing. Now, I hear you are a big guy so it should be easy for you to grab your pal by the throat and hammer a 10 penny nail into his head and knock some sense and compassion into him. The tone and content of his post made me wretch. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*> To: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*> Cc: "Michelle" <lisa3@ch*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 8:45 PM Subject: Re: Nic Gotto Inquest > I was a little dismayed at his post directed at Michelle. Death is a > terrible thing, the loss of your loved one effects different people > different ways. Getting something (anything) off your chest helps deal > with the grief. If Michelle felt that posting to the 700 odd people on > this list about her husbands death will help her deal with the loss > then I think that is a good thing. > > But I see what JT's point is. When I first started techdiving, I had > my life insurance policy squared away, a comprehensive will & testament > and all my bank accounts and titles and mortgages with my wife's name. > I'm no fool, I knew what I was getting into. Then the kids came along > and the really changed things. My wife asked me some hard questions > about my sport, which got me thinking. And tech diving is a high risk > sport of which part of the fun is the risk, like sky diving, mountain > climbing or motorcycle driving. > > And none of these sports are appropriate for a family man, at least a > responsible one. Throwing in a rebreather, especially one with the > track record of the buddy desperation, to me really indicates a person > who's loved ones and family came second to their love of defying death. > Michelle you must have know this. > > I have to tell you that even if I was single, in debt and with a Mafia > contract on my head, I would not use a buddy desperation or any other > rebreather for that matter. Open circuit is KISS and there is no need > for 99% of the divers, even hard corps tech divers, to waste their > money on these things. Electronic rebreathers are toys for rich > technogeeks who want to one-up their diving buddies and nothing more. > > All you wives or husbands out there who techdive really needs to get > your lives in order. If you have children shame on you if you take > unnecessary risks. Even if you don't you had better get your finances > cleared up and life insurance policies squared away. You need to take > responsibility for your actions. And this responsibility extends to the > people who's lives depend on folks who choose to live high-risk lives. > A lot of you people need to come to grips that techdiving in any > location is a high risk sport. Ask any insurance adjuster, they know. > > I hope Michelles post serves as a wakeup call to you knuckleheads out > there. Techdiving is one of those sports where you need to prepare for > long before you even start taking lessons, as the recent near death in > FL shows. You need to tell your loved ones about the risks involved and > prepare for them, doing otherwise makes me question your intelligence > and/or sanity. > > Jim > > > On Tuesday, March 18, 2003, at 05:44 PM, Capt JT wrote: > > > What I see with the families of divers who have died it always seems > > those that complain have never gotten involved with the victims > > lives/hobbies until they die and then it is to point the finger at > > something/anything other than the victim .............clearly for a > > human to place his head underwater and breath has some risk and should > > be considered somewhat unsafe. Lets look at the facts YOU > > state..........the unit had many problems, he knew this, you knew this > > and yet he chose to still dive it. To take a unit to breath underwater > > , even if it was working correctly is a risk. He did it knowing it had > > problems which is a much higher risk. Then you back this up by saying > > he is highly intelligent.........Michelle I am sorry for his death, > > but intelligent is not what I would call him. Stop posting. > > > > > > > > > > At 07:40 AM 3/18/03 +0000, Michelle wrote: > >> You think you are so big. Don't you think I have torchered myself a > >> million times looking for a way I could hahe stopped him using this > >> equipment now. > >> > >> How dare you try to blame Paul's death on me. > >> > >> Paul was highly inteligent and electronically and computer minded. He > >> was an IT expert. He also was an adult used to making his own >> choices. > >> > >> We discussed on a number of occasions the problems he had had with > >> his original unit. Numerous and often there seemed no obvious way to > >> relate them to each other. He watched the handsets like a hawk and > >> was meticulous in its mainanance. Unfortunately he also beleived that > >> when he had a replacement unit - after much heated discussion with > >> AP, this second unit appeared to be problem free and working as > >> expected. I have the email he sent to martin Parker stating the unit > >> now was working as expected - so it seemed. > >> He made a number of succesful dives on this second unit without > >> problem so put his original problems down to having been suplied 'a > >> lemon'. > >> > >> He had a great deal of respect for the unit and used it with great > >> caution. Obviously this was not enough. > >> > >> On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:26:57 -0500 Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*> > >> wrote: > >> Michelle, I have only one question for you................Why did you > >> wait > >> until Paul died to get involved in what he was doing. quote "Paul had > >> had > >> no end of problems with the unit".......so you knew something was not > >> right. > >> > >> > >> At 09:04 PM 3/17/03 +0000, Michelle wrote: > >> >Hi George, > >> >You are so right. Paul thought he was helping with breakthroughs > >> when he > >> >particepated in the early trimix dives on the unit. Everyone on the > >> >inspiration site knew what he was doing, he and a dozen or so others > >> >discussed how they were using mix on the unit. Not a word of caution > >> from > >> >the manufacturers, they must have loved all the free research they > >> were > >> >getting done by Paul and the others. There was even a chamber dive > >> planned > >> >to further asess the performance of the unit on trimix. > >> >Then his accident and all of a sudded he was some kind of rogue and > >> the > >> >statement was that he died because he was using trimix. > >> >The unit is sold to be used with trimix and heliox, how did the use > >> of > >> >trimix kill him? We cannot see another diver related reason so lets > >> blame > >> >it on trimix. > >> >Paul did not die because he was using trimix but this was the get out > >> >initially used. There are plenty of people using trimix on the unit > >> now. > >> >Some very lucky people. > >> >Imagine, you have the full suport of your peers and are in freequent > >> >contact with the manufacturers detailing exactly what you are doing. > >> >Suddenly, you die whilst using one of these units and all that suport > >> >dissapears and you become some maveric doing things they would never > >> condone. > >> >Paul had had no end of problems with the unit so was extremely > >> cautious > >> >and meticulous whilst using it. Replacement scrubber lids and a > >> >replacement unit and numerous discussions with AP. > >> > > >> >How does it feel to be the widow? > >> >When the people your sole mate entrusted his life to abandon him and > >> use > >> >him as a scapegoat? They have a quote published in a magazine stating > >> >their sympathy for you when you can see nothing has been done to > >> rectify > >> >the situation, they do nothing and they act like nothing has hapened. > >> >When the daughter you bore after he died wishes on a star that she > >> could > >> >see her father. > >> >When your entire life has been thrown up in the air and slowly falls > >> back > >> >down to the ground shattering in to unrecoverable peices. > >> >When collegues at work dash in to a utility room when they see you > >> walking > >> >towards them in a corridoor because they just don't know what to say > >> to > >> >you. You feel like a leper. > >> >When people ask you 'hello, how are you?' ( normal, polite) you have > >> to > >> >say 'fine thanks' ( normal, polite) but inside you want to screem at > >> them > >> >for asking such a stupid question. How the hell do they think you > >> feel - > >> >but it is not their fault, they don't know how much that simple > >> question > >> >rips you apart. > >> >When you spend endless hours with his patents explaining, trying to > >> make > >> >some sense of it. No parent expects to loose their child. > >> >When you are evicted and your home is reposessed because you are not > >> named > >> >on the mortgage. The home you shared for almost a decade. > >> >When you sit every night in silence on the sofa desperate to hear > >> his keys > >> >in the door as he comes home to you. > >> >You hear about 15 more people loosing their life on the same unit but > >> >still no questions are asked. > >> >And all the time the one you love is being used as a scapegoat, > >> called an > >> >idiot by people who never met him, and every time you try to defend > >> him > >> >you are pushed off as an hysterical woman. You look deeper and > >> deeper and > >> >ask questions that no-one will answer. > >> >You have to listen to his reputation being ripped to shreds even > >> though > >> >you know what people are saying is wrong. > >> > > >> >Shall I go on, or do you get the impression? > >> >Martin Parker has spoken to me twice. Once at Paul's inquest where > >> he said > >> >'stuffy in there, isn't it' and once at Nic Gotto's inquest where he > >> tried > >> >to say hello as if we were old friends, and asked was I well, in the > >> most > >> >incredable upbeat maner, I was horrified and speachless. He seems to > >> have > >> >absolutely no concept. > >> > > >> >As for the other things I can tell you about their performance, how > >> about > >> >attempting to submit a graph ( of how long the loop could sustain > >> life) at > >> >a public inquest, which was massively innacurate but if it had been > >> >believed could have explained the pathologists findings. The graph's > >> >innacuracy was exposed and there was no other way AP could explain > >> the > >> >pathologist's findings. The pathalogical evidence that Paul had been > >> alive > >> >for some time, probably hours, following a hypoxic event. > >> > > >> >On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 18:04:43 -0500 George Irvine <trey@my*.ne*> > >> wrote: > >> >Lisa, this post of yours has brought out the usual suspects from the > >> Buddy > >> >Inspiration cheering section, who are about the same caliber of > >> mentality as > >> >you would expect to see at a cock fight. They are citing some web > >> links that > >> >contain examples of stupidity that are beyond the pale, but they see > >> them as > >> >fantastic accomplishments. > >> > > >> >Maybe you and the rest of the Buddy Inspiration widows can explain > >> to these > >> >morons what it really means to have your husband killed by a piece > >> of shit > >> >like Martin Parker, by the crap training out there, by the "every > >> man for > >> >himself" mentality of the tough guy Brits who seem to feel these > >> devices > >> >make them a real man, and by the very "accomplishments" ( read doing > >> stupid > >> >things and getting away with it) that they are so proud of. > >> > > >> >The funny thing is that they want to attack me over your post. Your > >> husband > >> >is dead along with countless others due to this piece of crap and the > >> >thinking that surrounds it, and we have some lame moron on here > >> telling me > >> >how superior these people are and how screwed up GUE is ( now he has > >> changed > >> >that to "DIR"). > >> > > >> >Maybe you can put some of the things you told me privately on here > >> and save > >> >some lives. While the idiots are well recognized by most of us a > >> idiots, you > >> >never know who you could prevent from suffering like you have. > >> > > >> > > >> >-----Original Message----- > >> >From: Lisa [mailto:lisa3@ch*.co*] > >> >Sent: Thursday, March 10, 3707 12:58 AM > >> >To: techdiver@aquanaut.com > >> >Subject: Nic Gotto Inquest > >> > > >> > > >> >Cork City Coroner, Dr Myra Cullinane, last week recorded an open > >> verdict at > >> >the conclusion of the inquest into the death of Nic Gotto, Union > >> Hall, > >> >County Cork, who died in July 1998 whilst using the Buddy Inspiration > >> >Rebreather. The coroners court heard that Nic and some friends were > >> due to > >> >dive to the Kowloon Bridge wreck, just a few miles south of Glandore > >> harbour > >> >in County Cork, when the tradgy happened. Nic and his buddy entered > >> the > >> >water as normal and proceeded to the bow of the wreck at 9m. All was > >> well at > >> >thisstage, Nic was seen to have looked at his handsets and then > >> signalled Ok > >> >to his buddy. He indicated a direction for the dive to continue and > >> lead the > >> >way with his buddy following behind. The visibility was very poor > >> that day > >> >and Nic's buddy lost sight of him for a few minutes only able to > >> follow by > >> >using Nic's torch beam for direction. Within a few minutes the buddy > >> came > >> >upon Nic lying on his back with his mouthpiece out and having what > >> appeared > >> >to be a convulsion. His buddy immediately realised that Nic was in > >> trouble > >> >and attempt to rescue him. In the rescue attempt Nic's buddy lost > >> his own > >> >mouthpiece and weight belt and started to ascend. He made it to the > >> 9m mark > >> >and managed to alert another pair of divers that Nic was in trouble. > >> One of > >> >the other divers quickly found Nic and assisted him to the surface > >> where he > >> >was taken onboard the boat and CPR was administered for 45 minutes > >> after > >> >which time the Air Sea Rescue helicopter winched him on board and > >> flew him > >> >to hospital where he was pronounced dead on arrival. The court heard > >> that > >> >Nic's rebreather was dropped during his rescue and was not recovered > >> for > >> >some days. On inspection the Buddy Inspiration Rebreather was found > >> to be in > >> >good working order and no alterations had been made to the kit. > >> There was a > >> >reading on both guages. Both handsets, when opened, were found to be > >> cracked > >> >and full of seawater. Nic had been seen to be having difficulties > >> >calibrating his equipment prior to getting on the boat. On the boat > >> prior to > >> >the dive, Nic dismantled and cleaned and re assembled his equipment, > >> >breathed from the unit and prepared to enter the water. It was noted > >> that no > >> >alarm was heard at anytime before, during and after Nic was brought > >> to the > >> >surface. Mr Hogan, the pathologist at Cork University Hospital, said > >> that > >> >Nic had suffered drowning after a metabolic event had occurred > >> leading to > >> >him losing consciousness, he said that it might have Hyperoxia or > >> Hycapnia. > >> >It was recorded that Nic had completed approx. 10 dives on the > >> equipment. As > >> >no one had witnessed Nic changing the scrubber canister the > >> manufactures, AP > >> >Valves, did make a submission that it might have been Hypercapnia > >> that lead > >> >to Nic's demise. Nic's widow Rachel was able to tell the court that > >> of two > >> >20kg drums of sofnalime at her house over half of one is gone. The > >> coroner > >> >seemed satisfied that this suggested that Nic had replaced the scruba > >> >contents. At the end of three days the Jury were directed to return > >> one of > >> >three possible verdicts, accidental death, death by misadventure and > >> open > >> >verdict. They returned the latter. > >> > > >> >During questioning, a witness who initially reported that Nic told > >> her the > >> >scrubber could last 10 hours, confirmed this 10 hours could well have > >> >related to the O2 cylinder duration and not the scrubber. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >My condolencies to Rachel, Nic's wife, and his three daughters, two > >> who are > >> >teenagers and one little girl who has never seen her father. > >> > > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > >> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > >> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > >> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > >> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >> > >> > >> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get > >> in the > >> water" > >> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > >> Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > >> Email captjt@mi*.co* > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get > > in the water" > > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > > Email captjt@mi*.co* > > > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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