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On Mon, 17 Apr 1995 09:37:03 +22305714 (HST) Richard Pyle wrote:
>
> I've been listening to the audio tapes from the tek95 meetings lately.
> One of the sessions dealt with legal issues and underscored the importance
> of "community standards" in determining outcomes of lawsuits. These are
> not necessarily written standards, but more like accepted conventtions
> within the community (in this case, the community of technical divers).
> If so, then the solution seems crystal clear to me.
>
> As far as I can see, the "technical diving" thing is still young enough that
> community standards are still ambiguous. So it's not too late to define
> these standards. I suggest we create the "community standard" that we all
> want! I think the "standard" can be summed up in two sentences:
>
> "WHATEVER happens to you when you willingly go underwater is
> COMPLETELY and ENTIRELY your own responsibility! If you cannot
> accept this responsibility, stay out of the water!"
Hi Rich,
When I'm not diving, one of my alternative sports is skydiving, & both
my u/w dives and skydives are chasing the 900 mark now. With a bit of devious
management I might may the 1000'th skydive & u/w dive coincide in a year or so
for a 'bit of fun'.
Anyway the point of this is that the credo you advocates is *exactly*
the one adopted in the skydiving community. You have to sign all your legal
rights of protection away just to get into a skydiving plane. All parachutes
now come with a blanket warning that they are not "designed to be fit for any
particular purpose". If you try & use it as a parachute & it doesn't open then
that's tough..you probably didn't pack it right & it's your own fault, not the
manufacturer. If you try & use it as a tent :-) & it blows down or leaks..then
that's your problem too, it wasn't designed to be a tent either...! If you
choose to buy a high speed, high performance and 'twitchy' canopy you've seen
the experts do sensational, close to the ground manouvers with, but when you
try
it yourself without their experience you bury yourself into the ground & end up
in hospital ...or worse, then that's tough too. You won't get much sympathy
from your skydiving friends either. I know. I've been there....but I wasn't
complaining or trying to sue the drop zone or the parachute company for my own
actions.
You *do* get good advice all the time from your fellow skydivers..& good
instruction from the dropzone operators & instructors, but if you choose to
ignore it then ultimately it's your life & your own decision.
Having said that, if you do go around risking your life needlessly &
especially the life of other skydivers then you will pretty quickly become
unpopular, have no one to jump with & nowhere/no plane to jump from.
In spite of all this, the system works well. All these negative
'cop-outs' are there because it's hard (impossible) to have 100% control over
everyone else's actions. Every skydiver looks after himself (herself). It
doesn't mean that parachutes are made badly just because there is little or no
legal comeback on the manufacturers. The system self-regulates. No one would
buy a canopy with a bad reputation. If you do...& you survive (we always carry
a reserve !!), then you take the canopy back & complain. If your reserve
doesn't work either then you won't be around to complain, but then you *knew*
this when you started.
We u/w divers all have backups too. If you do get a bad regulator
service & don't find out before diving deep (why not ??), then you transfer
onto
the spare set & compain when you get back. I would be unlikely to want to end
up in court over it.
Nor does it mean that people (generally) act irresponsibly. A
comparison with the dive boat skipper can be made with the jump-master on the
plane. If I'm jumping out in a tightly linked launch with 10 to 20 other
skydivers then I haven't got time to look out of the plane before jumping to
check I'm not over the sea, a city or a forest. I would do all I can before
jumping to check the plane was OK, approx in the right place etc but would
trust
the jump-master to act responsibly & not try to kill me. But if he, or the
pilot or the aero-mechanic makes a mistake...there is no legal comeback & if I
don't like those terms I don't get into the plane...!
The apparent US obsession with legal liability is so remarkably
different to the system I saw operate well in New Zealand. There, if you want
to bungey-jump then the risks are obvious. I am told that you wouldn't get
very
far trying to sue the operators if things went wrong, because no one forced you
to jump..but they *don't* often go wrong..so the system seems to work.
Similarly, when I had a look at some of the thermal sites in NZ with
pools of boiling mud there was a low fence (about 1/2 metre high) with a sign
saying the mud was dangerous & could kill you if you fell in. In England
(probably) & in the USA (almost certainly) there would be a high fence to
*stop*
you falling in. You could probably sue if you leaned on the fence & it gave
way (& you survived !!). This is ridiculous in my opinion.
Which brings me back to diving and liability. One of the stories I
heard concerning rebreathers (Cis-Lunar & others) was that a significant part
of
the unit cost of each rebreather, $1000 or more, was going to be spent by the
purchaser solely on insuring the manufacturer against the purchaser suing if it
went wrong. Is this true ?? Is so, it's a shame we can't sign some sort of
waiver like the skydiving community do to get away from the insurance & take
the
risk on our own shoulders.
Any comments ??
Regards, Steve M.
**************************************************************************
* * *
* Dr. S. G. Millard, * E-Mail : ec96@li*.ac*.uk* *
* Senior Lecturer, * *
* Department of Civil Engineering * Tel : 0151 794 5224 (UK) *
* University of Liverpool, * 44 151 794 5224 *
* PO Box 147, * (International) *
* Liverpool L69 3BX, * *
* UK. * Fax : 0151 794 5218 (UK) *
* * 44 151 794 5218 *
* * (International) *
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