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Doug , you left out the part about the multiple inflators , but that is so
stupid it does not warrant discussion.
Halycon uses the "cheap" inflator at my direction : an inflator need to be
slow, not fast or air balanced, and it needs to be an easily replaceable
part, as in available anywhere. OMS used to use the biggest piece of shit
out there as an Inflator, and I found that out first hand when I tried to
inflate a dead body off of the ocean floor with that inflator on the bungee
wings of the victim.
As far as "bullet proof", Halcyon actually offers ballistic nylon and
kevlar wings for those of you under fire, or the idiots who can not stay
off the floor, ceiling or other objects in their path. I see no need for
it.
I have seven sets of Halcyon wings and four sets of Dive Rite wings.
Unfortunately, I don't think Dive Rite makes the kind I have anymore, and
with those one still has to add the innertube over the bladder. Halcyon
owns their own machine that makes wings, so they can make changes every day
if they want, and I have sat in the shop with them and shown them what I
consider to be the important issues in wings. Nobody else is smart enough
to get that part, and they never will.
No matter what the idiots at OMS make, I can see no reason to patronize
people who fight doing things correctly and continue to produce bullshit
and defend bullshit, and aim for the ignorant, the newbies, and the worst
strokes as their target market.
I do have an OMS backplate ( of course it is rigged correctly and does not
have their stupidity on it), I have several Dive Rites, again sans the
dumbassery, and I have some Halcyon plates - those come rigged properly.
The other issue is that the strokes out there don't bother teaching the
concept of a balanced rig, so think that wings and drysuits are for getting
up - they are for fine tuning, but I am not about to waste my breath
arguing with the idiots over that. GUE teaches it properly, and that is all
I care about - the rest can "eat cake".
If you want gear made by people who really do it and really know what they
are doing, you go to Halcyon. If you want bullshit by and for idiots, go
elsewhere - real simple. My non-halcyon gear is either custom made, or
purchased prior to the existence of Halcyon and modified to work correctly.
For the non-strokes out here who have been burned by the dive industry,
there is Ebay, the dive industry and dumb ass instructor victim's best
friend.
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Chapman [mailto:dougch@ea*.ne*]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:50 PM
To: HLAviation@ao*.co*
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: Survey of NE DiveBoats re: GUE acceptance.
The archives should contain the critical comments regarding the OMS
bungeed wings. The quality of construction and durability were not the
issues but rather the effects of a bungeed bladder on oral inflation
resistance as the bungees reduce the compliance of the submerged bladder;
rapid deflation as the bungees artificially constrict the bladder - less
control on venting; and placement WRT the divers variable center of
flotation v.s. the center of mass and how that can affect static and dynamic
stability.
Not trying to be argumentative, but a discussion of failure must also me
accompanied by an indication of usage. I assume your wings are well used. My
Diverite wings have by estimate somewhere between 600 to 700 dives (I know I
don't get out as much any more). They are not perfect and have flaws IMHO
but they have given me great service. When I need to replace them I will
consider Diverite, Halcyon, and maybe OMS (since I noted they now offer a
non-bungeed wing). Currently the Halcyon appears to be the most durable (but
I don't like the cheap inflators). Who knows what will be around in a couple
of years? WRT equipment, my point would be to look at the quality of
construction, the salient features, and the features that detract from its
performance. Pick the equipment that emphasizes the first two points and
eliminate the last. A reliance on brand association is not important, and
IMHO, is a real indication of a "stroke".
Now being somewhat argumentative, but not in a derogatory way as this is a
discussion of viewpoints, you stated the OMS wing is "bullet proof gear" but
you would switch from using it if someone gave you a Halcyon. Why?
-Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: HLAviation@ao*.co*
To: dougch@ea*.ne*
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: Survey of NE DiveBoats re: GUE acceptance.
In a message dated 7/23/2002 10:06:55 PM Central Daylight Time,
dougch@ea*.ne* writes:
Billy was an OMS dealer (with business obligations along that line)
and yes the bungeed wings have been rightfully (IMHO) discredited countless
times for numerous reasons since. By DIR definitions OMS bungeed wings, or
any wings with bungees for that matter, are "stroke" gear. I do not claim to
be a DIR diver; however I suspect my (and those I dive with) philosophy in
using Occum's razor affords similar end results: minimalization,
streamlining, constant improvement, and bullet-proof operations.
Ok then I must be a stroke, I still dive the OMS bungee wings that Billy
gave me in 94 which have never had a failure of any form. Speaks a bit to
bullet proof gear. If someone wants to give me a Halcyon wing, I'd consider
switching.=;)
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>
<P>Doug , you left out the part about the multiple inflators , but that =
is=20
so</P>
<P>stupid it does not warrant discussion.</P>
<P>Halycon uses the "cheap" inflator at my direction : an inflator need =
to=20
be</P>
<P>slow, not fast or air balanced, and it needs to be an easily =
replaceable</P>
<P>part, as in available anywhere. OMS used to use the biggest piece of =
shit</P>
<P>out there as an Inflator, and I found that out first hand when I =
tried to</P>
<P>inflate a dead body off of the ocean floor with that inflator on the=20
bungee</P>
<P>wings of the victim.</P>
<P>As far as "bullet proof", Halcyon actually offers ballistic nylon =
and</P>
<P>kevlar wings for those of you under fire, or the idiots who can not =
stay</P>
<P>off the floor, ceiling or other objects in their path. I see no need =
for</P>
<P>it.</P>
<P>I have seven sets of Halcyon wings and four sets of Dive Rite =
wings.</P>
<P>Unfortunately, I don't think Dive Rite makes the kind I have anymore, =
and</P>
<P>with those one still has to add the innertube over the bladder. =
Halcyon</P>
<P>owns their own machine that makes wings, so they can make changes =
every=20
day</P>
<P>if they want, and I have sat in the shop with them and shown them =
what I</P>
<P>consider to be the important issues in wings. Nobody else is smart =
enough</P>
<P>to get that part, and they never will.</P>
<P>No matter what the idiots at OMS make, I can see no reason to =
patronize</P>
<P>people who fight doing things correctly and continue to produce =
bullshit</P>
<P>and defend bullshit, and aim for the ignorant, the newbies, and the =
worst</P>
<P>strokes as their target market.</P>
<P>I do have an OMS backplate ( of course it is rigged correctly and =
does=20
not</P>
<P>have their stupidity on it), I have several Dive Rites, again sans =
the</P>
<P>dumbassery, and I have some Halcyon plates - those come rigged =
properly.</P>
<P>The other issue is that the strokes out there don't bother teaching =
the</P>
<P>concept of a balanced rig, so think that wings and drysuits are for=20
getting</P>
<P>up - they are for fine tuning, but I am not about to waste my =
breath</P>
<P>arguing with the idiots over that. GUE teaches it properly, and that =
is=20
all</P>
<P>I care about - the rest can "eat cake".</P>
<P>If you want gear made by people who really do it and really know what =
they</P>
<P>are doing, you go to Halcyon. If you want bullshit by and for idiots, =
go</P>
<P>elsewhere - real simple. My non-halcyon gear is either custom made, =
or</P>
<P>purchased prior to the existence of Halcyon and modified to work=20
correctly.</P>
<P>For the non-strokes out here who have been burned by the dive =
industry,</P>
<P>there is Ebay, the dive industry and dumb ass instructor victim's =
best</P>
<P>friend.</P>
<P> </P>
<P> </P></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Doug Chapman=20
[mailto:dougch@ea*.ne*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 23, 2002 =
11:50=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> HLAviation@ao*.co*<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Survey of NE DiveBoats
=
re: GUE=20
acceptance.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The archives should contain the =
critical comments=20
regarding the OMS bungeed wings. The quality of construction and =
durability=20
were not the issues but rather the effects of a bungeed bladder on =
oral=20
inflation resistance as the bungees reduce the compliance of the =
submerged=20
bladder; rapid deflation as the bungees artificially constrict the=20
bladder - less control on venting; and placement WRT the divers =
variable=20
center of flotation v.s. the center of mass and how that can=20
affect static and dynamic stability. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not trying to be argumentative, but a =
discussion=20
of failure must also me accompanied by an indication of usage. I =
assume your=20
wings are well used. My Diverite wings have by estimate somewhere =
between 600=20
to 700 dives (I know I don't get out as much any more). They are not =
perfect=20
and have flaws IMHO but they have given me great service. When I need =
to=20
replace them I will consider Diverite, Halcyon, and maybe OMS (since I =
noted=20
they now offer a non-bungeed wing). Currently the Halcyon appears to =
be the=20
most durable (but I don't like the cheap inflators). Who knows what =
will be=20
around in a couple of years? WRT equipment, my point would be to look =
at the=20
quality of construction, the salient features, and the features that =
detract=20
from its performance. Pick the equipment that emphasizes the first two =
points=20
and eliminate the last. A reliance on brand association is not =
important, and=20
IMHO, is a real indication of a "stroke".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now being somewhat argumentative, but =
not in a=20
derogatory way as this is a discussion of viewpoints, you stated the =
OMS wing=20
is "bullet proof gear" but you would switch from using it if someone =
gave you=20
a Halcyon. Why?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Doug</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DHLAviation@ao*.co*=20
href=3D"mailto:HLAviation@ao*.co*">HLAviation@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Ddougch@ea*.ne*=20
href=3D"mailto:dougch@ea*.ne*">dougch@earthlink.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com=20
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver@aquanaut.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 23,
2002 =
11:16=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Survey of NE =
DiveBoats re:=20
GUE acceptance.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT
size=3D2>In a =
message dated=20
7/23/2002 10:06:55 PM Central Daylight Time, <A=20
href=3D"mailto:dougch@ea*.ne*">dougch@earthlink.net</A>=20
writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff =
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE">Billy was an OMS dealer (with business obligations =
along that=20
line) and yes the bungeed wings have been rightfully (IMHO) =
discredited=20
countless times for numerous reasons since. By DIR definitions OMS =
bungeed=20
wings, or any wings with bungees for that matter, are "stroke" =
gear. I do=20
not claim to be a DIR diver; however I suspect my (and those I =
dive with)=20
philosophy in using Occum's razor affords similar end results:=20
minimalization, streamlining, constant improvement, and =
bullet-proof=20
operations. </FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff"=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D3=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>Ok then I must be a stroke, I still dive =
the OMS=20
bungee wings that Billy gave me in 94 which have never had a failure =
of any=20
form. Speaks a bit to bullet proof gear. If someone =
wants to=20
give me a Halcyon wing, I'd consider switching.=3D;)</FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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