JT, if you can not figure out the difference between being able to move the
boat and vanishing from the scene, you need to quit diving. If you can not
see the difference between planning an operation properly and a Chinese
fire drill like took place on the Seeker and on this trip being discussed,
then you are hopeless. Keep defending the Seeker and making an ass out of
yourself in the process.

Once again, your hard headed stubbornness and false pride come to the
surface. We are talking about the right way to do things, not about your
personal petty resentments and twisted argumentative bullshit.


-----Original Message-----
From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 8:37 AM
To: dmdalton; girvine@be*.ne*; TECHDIVER; DC-SCUBA
Subject: RE: Nova Tech Dive Report 7/21/02 & Lessons Learned


This is funny, now you say it is OK to put a float on a line and leave
divers in the water when a fool drifts away, but when you need to airlift a
diver to help save his life like the Seeker did it is wrong.
George, you are not getting the full story on the trip, I was at the dock
when they came in and I had a whole boat load of divers just drooling to
give me the true details after they left, read the trip report again, it is
very clear the things he is covering up, a real wreck diver can pick them
out..........



  At 10:09 PM 7/23/02 -0700, dmdalton wrote:
>Once again you are right on target, George.  Too bad
>more haven't listened to your advice, including us.
>
>The week before 5 of the Nova Tech crowd chartered our
>own boat, a 6 pack and it was "real hard".  I called a
>friend of mine in the dive business and told him that
>we wanted a boat run by a non-diver.  He gave me a
>number.  I called the fellow and told him we had 5
>divers to go out.  He started out telling me he could
>get a dive instructor to "take care of us".  I told
>him we didn't need a dive instructor. I told him where
>we wanted to go, the kind of dive profiles we would be
>running and equipment we would be bringing and we had
>ourselves a self directed charter.
>
>The only thing he told us (before we could tell him!)
>was that if anyone got blown off the wreck, he would
>"tie this here float" to the anchor line and go get
>the diver.
>
>Obviously it is a lot easier to control your situation
>when you pull you own strings.  It isn't that hard to
>find a boat to do it your way, and I don't know why
>more folks don't do it.
>
>BTW, the boat owner never asked to see our C-cards so
>the GUE acceptance thing (a load of crap to be sure)
>wouldn't have mattered anyway.
>
>Thanks as always, George, for your sage advice.
>
>Best to you and Pina.
>
>Keep hammering.
>
>Dave Dalton
>
>--- George Irvine <girvine@be*.ne*> wrote:
> > I keep telling you guys, leave the boat offset from
> > the upline and
> > detachable. Do not hang anything from the boat. I
> > told you that when I was
> > up there diving, and I told you that when I was up
> > there giving a seminar.
> > Stop doing that before you kill somebody or lose
> > somebody. Make things easy,
> > do it right.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dmdalton [mailto:dmdalton2000@ya*.co*]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 1:37 PM
> > To: TECHDIVER; DC-SCUBA; Atlantic Divers List
> > Subject: Nova Tech Dive Report 7/21/02 & Lessons
> > Learned
> >
> >
> > Trip report:
> >
> > Sunday, July 21, 2002 found 4 Nova Tech divers
> > diving
> > out of Virginia Beach, VA on the Miss Lindsey with
> > others with whom they regularly dive of the VB Tech
> > group.  Nova Tech group divers consisted of Todd
> > Clagett and Allyson Clagett diving as a buddy team 1
> > and David Dalton, Sr. & David Dalton, Jr. diving as
> > buddy team 2.  Team 1 is generally more interested
> > in
> > artifact recovery and Team 2 leans more toward
> > sightseeing.
> >
> > We arrived at the site of the Eureka (118 fsw) at
> > approximately 10:30, geared up and were in the water
> > at 11:30.  Visibility was a spectacular 70 ft and
> > water temps on the bottom were a pleasant 61
> > degrees,
> > with surface temp being much warmer.  There was a
> > strong current and it was very nice to be using
> > scooters to deal with it.  More on that later!
> >
> > Team 1 went right to digging in a hole that wasn't
> > more than 15 feet from where the wreck was tied in.
> > They left the numerous bottles they unearthed for
> > the
> > second dive bringing up just one.  Team 2 toured the
> > wreck with D1 (Sr) pulling D2 (Jr) with his Gavin
> > scooter.  D2 carried a camera and shot two rolls
> > which
> > are in the process of being developed as I write.
> > The
> > clarity of the water allowed one to get a very good
> > understanding of the layout of the wreck.  Viewing
> > the
> > two large anchors on the port side of the bow, at
> > the
> > same time was incredible.  Both Teams completed
> > their
> > planned 40  minute bottom times and required deco
> > and
> > got back on board.
> >
> > Todd advised that he had just broken into a new
> > crate
> > of bottles and showed one he had stuffed in his
> > pocket, a square bottle of Dr. Prichard's Castoria
> > with the good doctor's name and the product name
> > cast
> > into the bottle. Although these bottles were from
> > the
> > 1890's when this ship sunk, D1 is old enough (54) to
> > remember taking this patent medicine as a child.  It
> > was still sold in a square bottle and appeared that
> > the only change was from a cork to a screw top.
> >
> > Todd's discovery generated considerable excitement
> > between both teams and both decided to concentrate
> > on
> > excavating that hole on the second dive.
> >
> > Both teams brought bags down to carry back bottles
> > on
> > the second dive.  Todd, being the master digger with
> > a
> > scooter, went to work while the other 3 stuffed the
> > bags as he handed out bottles.
> >
> > About 20 minutes into the dive Allyson developed a
> > problem with one of her regs and after the situation
> > was handled both teams decided to end the dive.
> > Team
> > 1 started their ascent and deco and Team 2 hooked up
> > the two bags of bottles and started their ascent.
> > Rather than hang on the line like a flag in the
> > breeze
> > we were doing "drift and run deco". Drift 50 or 60
> > feet from the anchor line and then run back to it
> > with
> > the scooter, then drift again and repeat, obviously
> > only a technique one would employ in good viz.
> > Between 40 & 50 feet the current picked up quite a
> > bit
> > and we (Team 2) inadvertently drifted out of sight
> > of
> > the anchor line.  We ran some circular patterns on
> > the
> > scooter but to no avail.  We settled in, shot a bag,
> > completed our deco drift style, and upon completion
> > surfaced to find the boat several hundred yards
> > away.
> > We dropped down to 15 feet and scootered toward the
> > boat for about 2 minutes.  We surfaced again and saw
> > that we were making progress so we dropped down and
> > tried it again.  This time I could hear the motor on
> > the scooter slowing and realized we were out of
> > juice.
> >
> > We returned to the surface, and found we were even
> > farther away than before.  We fully inflated the
> > lift
> > bag, hooked up the dive-alerts an honked them and
> > flashed the HID light in the direction of the boat.
> >
> > Todd later advised that he saw us as soon as we
> > surfaced but we were not aware of this. Consequently
> > we continued to signal and honk.  Interestingly no
> > one
> > heard the dive alert (other than us!) and the HID
> > light (a 10 Watt EE Pro 6) was more visible than the
> > yellow lift bag. (Note to self: Never dive in the
> > ocean without the HID!)
> >
> > As we were the last divers in the water the boat
> > didn't have to wait TOOOOOOOOO long before coming to
> > get us.  The mate went in to pull the hook, they
> > pulled up the hangbars and gear lines and got
> > underway.  All of this took about 30 minutes which
> > doesn't seem like too long, but when you don't know
> > if
> > anyone knows where you are and you re drifting
> > farther
> > and farther from the boat, I can assure you it seems
> > like much longer!
> >
> > Lessons learned:
> >
> > 1) Switch batteries on the scooter between dives.
> > If
> > we had fresh batteries in the scooter we could have
> > made it back to the boat even following our drift
> > deco.
> >
> > 2) Make sure you have appropriate signaling devices.
> > Lift bag, safety sausage, HID light, dive-alert.  On
> > the last, while the dive-alert has it's place, which
> > is probably in situations where fog blows in and you
> > are relatively close to the boat, its not much good
> > at
> > longer distances as I have now learned.
> >
> > Along this same line it would be comforting for the
> > team in the water if the boat had someway of
> > signaling
> > back that they knew where you were and would come
> > get
> > you shortly (Horn, flare, guy in a lime green
> > drysuit
> > waving his arms on the top of the boat)!
> >
> > 3) This situation pointed out the need for chase
> > boats
> > when diving in strong currents, or for the boat to
> > be
> > able to put a float on the anchor line, so they can
> > leave to pick up/attend to the divers on a lift bag.
> > While the Miss Lindsey has a chase boat it was not
> > used in this case.  In this case we were able to
> > complete our deco, surface and wait to be picked up.
> > If a diver was injured or did not have appropriate
> > gas
> > to complete his deco (like hanging it off the boat
> > instead of carrying it with you) the outcome might
> > not
> > have been as favorable.
> >
> > 4)  Stay calm.  While we were concerned as to
> > whether
> > or not anyone knew where we were, we remained calm
> > which helped to contribute to the favorable outcome
> > of
> > this dive.  There was no reason to panic, the water
> > was warm, we were in trilam drysuits with thinsulate
> > undergarments, we had a 10 watt hid that would burn
> > for 5 + hours which would be especially good for
> > signaling in the dusk or at night and we had 4 back
> > up
> > lights between us.  We had just eaten several Miss
> > Lindsey "Deco Dogs" before the second dive so our
> > nutritional requirements were taken care of (those
> > things will stay with you forever!).  We were well
> > hydrated and I had a P-valve in my drysuit - too bad
> > my son did not (You've never seen anyone get out of
> > a
> > drysuit and run for the head so fast)!!!!
> >
> > 5) If you are doing a "drift and run" deco, make
> > sure
> > you don't lose sight of the anchor line.
> >
> > All in all, it was an incredible day of diving,
> > great
> > weather, great viz, great bottles (yes we still had
> > both bags when we got back on the boat), and a very
> > worthwhile learning experience.  What more could you
> > ask for?
> >
> > Dave Dalton
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Dave Dalton
> >
> > "You just can't show up for "Game Day" and expect to
> > win.
> >   You've got to go to practice if you want to be
> > ready!"
> >
> >
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~toddclagett/NovaTech/
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
> > http://health.yahoo.com
> > --
> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >
>
>
>=====
>Dave Dalton
>
>"You just can't show up for "Game Day" and expect to win.
>   You've got to go to practice if you want to be ready!"
>
>      http://home.earthlink.net/~toddclagett/NovaTech/
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
>http://health.yahoo.com
>--
>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.


"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the
water"
Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
  Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
Email     captjt@mi*.co*


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