George,

Thanks for the reply. Also to Esat for his private email.

Jack



At 07:01 AM 3/13/02 -0500, George Irvine wrote:

>What part, mine or Esat's? Mine is easy - only a dumb fuck would jack up the
>oxygen to think he is beating deco an take that degree of damage and
>unacceptable risk. Esat's is easy also - the chemical description of what
>you are doing to yourself by jacking the oxygen.
>
>Ever feel that weird cramping discomfort in the big muscles on a dive? Esat
>is describing that process in one sentence.
>
>Esat is a scientist who is charged with finding causes, mechanisms and
>possible cures for some of the most complex acting substances in this
>universe. He has long ago learned not to draw conclusions without looking at
>all the moving parts. He is the absolute best at seeing things that escape
>the causal observer.
>
>I merely iterate around until I find something that works, then I ask people
>like Esat and Weinke why they think it works, thus raising my own
>understanding and possibly seeing paths to the next level, so to speak.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jack@un*.co* [mailto:jack@un*.co*]
>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 10:37 PM
>To: trey@ne*.co*; Esat Atikkan; Bruce R. Wienke;
>deco@de*.or*; techdiver@aquanaut.com
>Subject: RE: FYI: RGBM WKPP/Irvine Test Deco Profile Comparison
>
>
>At the risk of sounding like a total moron (and getting flamed for it), can
>someone translate this into something the layman can understand?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jack
>
>
>
>At 06:35 AM 3/12/02 -0500, George Irvine wrote:
> >Esat, helium and very low PPO2s - I am diving in the .8 range.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Esat Atikkan [mailto:atikkan@ya*.co*]
> >Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 9:23 PM
> >To: Bruce R. Wienke; deco@de*.or*; techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >Subject: Re: FYI: RGBM WKPP/Irvine Test Deco Profile Comparison
> >
> >
> >
> >The issue is nothing but having the biochem run
> >following dives.  It would B best that it B run in the
> >absence of DCS S&S as that would provide the baseline,
> >& hopefully the abberation that leads to DCS would
> >become evident.
> >
> >As for He, obviously good approach but still does not
> >take peroxinitrates out of the picture as that lies in
> >the cGMP/NO pathway that is thought to B central to
> >the relaxation of vascular smooth muscle.
> >
> >There is no question that being in good cardiovascular
> >& physical shape has benefits, but it is doubtful that
> >it would afford protections against SOD depletion
> >and/or peroxinitrates.
> >
> >Safe bubbles
> >
> >Esat Atikkan
> >
> >
> >--- "Bruce R. Wienke" <brw@la*.go*> wrote:
> > >   Yes.
> > >
> > >    Would be very interesting indeed -- this info
> > > needs folding into
> > >  diving on the envelope. Especially considering the
> > > stress.
> > >
> > >     We take Vits. exercise, and are in great shape
> > > here at/on
> > >  LANL D-team, and will soon wet test 400/30 with He
> > > on way up (not
> > >  nitrox switches that George uses).  Our dives are
> > > almost 90% He
> > >  these days -- we avoid N2 as much as possible. We
> > > are highly DCI absent
> > >  on RGBM schedules.  Bottom line -- deep stops are
> > > safe, cost effective,
> > >  and time saving.  Even if "arbitrarily" built up
> > > from Haldane.
> > >
> > >     Can't accurately quantify such complex
> > > biochemistry, vascularity
> > >  and related phenomenon, but such in coarse grain
> > > deco planners enter thru
> > > bub
> > >  distribution, perfusion dilatation, etc., and
> > > possibly oxygen sat.  If you
> > >  have data linked to DCI, we might be able to say
> > > something?
> > >
> > >
> > >  BW
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >has anyone looked at hematological & bichemical
> > > >parameters following these dives:
> > > >Crit, [Hb], plasma osmolarity, RBC fragility come
> > > to
> > > >mind as do plasma volume changes.
> > > >
> > > >This would B fertile ground to assess the oxidative
> > > >stress of such dives, wh/, over the long haul, may
> > > B
> > > >more significant than the putative bubble problems.
> > > >
> > > >I think Irvine & co deal w/ oxidative stress
> > > through
> > > >supplements of Vit E & C, wh/ would ameliorate the
> > > SOD
> > > >depletion, particularly the Cu/Zn SOD of the RBCs.
> > > >
> > > >However, the peroxinitrate relaxation mediated
> > > >comprimise of vascular endothelial integrity does
> > > come
> > > >to mind as an area needing study.
> > > >
> > > >If I recollect correctly this was studied &
> > > published
> > > >(Undersea Hyperbar Med in the late 90's does come
> > > to
> > > >mind).  how it applies to the dives modelled here
> > > >would be of interest.
> > > >
> > > >Safe bubbles
> > > >
> > > >Esat Atikkan
> > > >
> > > >__________________________________________________
> > > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > > >Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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