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Doc Grogan & George-
I am still confused about AGE. Questions:
-So it is possible to get AGE to the point of passing out but not
suffer any brain damage?
-I thought that once the bubble(s) got into the brain it shuts off
blood flow to that part of the brain.
-How long can brain cells survive without blood?
-How percentage of the brain needs to be deprived of blood flow to
cause a blackout?
-Once in the brian how long do these bubbles hang around before they
dissapate?
-Is this a pole-ax knockout or do you feel symptoms of an AGE coming
on (nausia, visuals, etc).
-If there are signs, can you do anything about it to save your ass,
perhaps descend (with your buddy) an atomosphere or two?
I suppose everybody who ocean dives has blown the near-surface deco at
one time or other. This is the one problem I have with George's deco
profiles, the slow descent from 10' to the surface. More often than
not this is not doable due to the boat flopping around, currents and
the rapid expansion of air in your suit/wings in this zone. Perhaps a
drifting deco is better for this, but it is not an option in most
cases up here.
I have been on my hangline at 30', have the current surge and be swept
up to 15' or so before I let enough line out to get back to depth. I
have never thought much about it until this AGE discussion.
Jim
On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 14:44:29 -0500
Wendell Grogan <wgrogan@dc*.ne*> wrote:
>Trey, all,
>I'm really only commenting on this because I was asked to do so.
>That said, I agree with what you're saying. The event almost
>certainly
>was an AGE. Timing, symptoms all point to that. The why is still up
>in
>the air a bit, but the bouncing between 20 and 10 feet probably was a
>factor. If the PFO testing is negative, I think it would be
>reasonable
>to conclude that some bubbles were formed during the 10 foot bounce
>that
>then were compressed enough to allow for shunting through the lung
>capillaries down at the 20 foot level. Spending some extra time on
>O2
>at the 20 foot stop, or a slower ascent from 20 might have made a
>difference. That, however, would be purely speculation on my part.
>Wendell
>P.S. The rest of what you're saying certainly makes good sense, but I
>have the good sense to know that such questions are out of my league.
>
>
>George Irvine wrote:
>>
>> >From talking to Mike and looking at this situation, it appears that
>>the
>> diver experienced a paradoxical cerebral gas embolism. That can
>>happen
>> either via a pulmonary shunt or PFO, or by bouncing up, then down
>>,then
>> going up.
>>
>> Proper weighting of the dive rig is so essential.
>>
>> The thing about PFO is that you could go for years without getting
>>hit, and
>> then get hit on a nothing dive.
>>
>> Whatever the case, the guy is being examined for all of these
>>possibilities
>> and or any other medical condition previously undetected.
>>
>> The big thing here is that Barnette's gang was on the ball, and
>>handled the
>> situation, a testimonial to as to why he and many of us don't
>>tolerate Star
>> Wars Bar Scenes and control the dive situation. Had this been an
>>occurrence
>> on one of the amateur hour wannabee a tech diver boats that pop up
>>here
>> daily in S Florida, it would have ended in a death.
>>
>> HOWEVER, I think those of us who are wanting to do things the right
>>way need
>> to get together and define exactly what that is. Fuck the strokes,
>>let them
>> rot. We need to get it right. Everyone needs to be on the same page
>>and
>> everyone who is in the position of leadership in these groups, like
>>I am in
>> the WKPP has to INSIST that everyone is on the same page in all
>>respects.
>>
>> While it is true that squared away people can salvage a bad
>>situation, like
>> we have done in the WKPP when assholes had to do it their way and
>>fucked up,
>> it is ESSENTIAL that none of this be tolerated in the first place.
>>
>> JT, Mike and anyone else who is running dives needs to get with me
>>and all
>> of us agree as to what the key elements of successful diving are,
>>and let
>> the morons go their own way without us. We need to do it privately
>>among
>> ourselves since nobody else is interested in this concept.
>>
>> --
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