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I was converted to DIR a few years ago . I just never saw any one on the boat that was . Thank you for the kind words, your welcome back anytime. See you this summer Capt.RJ Blind Squirrel PS Never know who's reading this stuff (I am Not my brothers keeper ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendell Grogan" <wgrogan@dc*.ne*> To: <trey@ne*.co*> Cc: <vbtech@ci*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 6:45 PM Subject: Re: Diver Responsibility > This reminds me of a dive some of us from NE-DIR did last summer. We > chartered a boat to do a dive on a U-boat. There was only the six of us > and the boat owner. What amazed him was the fact that we were > organized, were tech divers with dry suits, double tanks, deco bottles, > etc., but at the same time, we didn't have whole lot of extra shit with > us. He told us that he had a group of "technical divers" on the boat > earlier that summer and they had at least twice the amount of "stuff" > with them. > By the end of the day, between the fact that we didn't complain or argue > when he told us it wasn't safe to dive until the fog burned off (we were > doing a dive in the middle of a major shipping channel) and the fact > that we did our dives, with no fuss, bother, or "chinese fire drill" > tactics, we were the easiest dive group he had ever taken out. (I think > he was a convert to DIR.) > This, by the way, was a group of DIR divers who had never met until that > morning- a telling example of how "doing it right" is right. > Wendell > > George Irvine wrote: > > > > Wendell, the fishing guys are the best. Why deal with a 10 knot boat stuffed > > with strokes when you can ride out a 30 knots with real equipment, real > > seamen, and have your own people on the boat instead of some fat slob with > > his new Buddy Inspiration and shiny new IANTD card, or a Dave Sutton with > > his homemade bullshit and big mouth, or a captain who dives and tells you he > > will "cut your line if you run one on the wreck", as well as a slew of dive > > shop savants and anointed "experts". > > > > I can't believe that given the upscale nature of the NE crowd ( other than > > the freeloading boat monkeys and dive instructors), you guys can't put > > together a few first class operations. > > > > I think if you want to see the real issues in what happened, see Mike Kane's > > post and Steve Belinda's post. I don't see how a release can get you past > > that. If that case gets heard at all, I think you will see either a huge > > settlement or a win, and if it does, I just hope they put some conditions in > > there that preclude these morons from continuing to do the same thing. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wendell Grogan [mailto:wgrogan@dc*.ne*] > > Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 3:34 PM > > To: vbtech@ci*.co* > > Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com > > Subject: Re: Diver Responsibility > > > > OK, I'm going to wade in here for a second. JT and others are well > > aware of my qualifications, and lack thereof to comment on things > > related to diving. On the other hand, for over a quarter of a century, > > I have been dealing with the whole question of personal choice, > > qualification to make life altering decisions, etc. on a daily basis. I > > have seen more people suffer and sometimes die because of their bad > > choices than any dive boat captain. I have also been sued (never > > successfully) because people made bad decisions and suffered because of > > them. > > Lesson 1- the first casualty of litigation is truth, the second is > > reality testing. > > Lesson 2- no matter how careful you are to explain, consent, conjoal, > > beg, or plead with someone regarding their choices- if they get hurt you > > can get sued, if you cost them the 10 cents when they don't get to do > > what they want, you can get sued. > > Conclusion- Personally, I don't expect anything out of a dive boat > > operator than a safe boat trip out to the dive site and back, for them > > to be there when I get back to the surface and have a way for me to get > > onto the boat, and for them to have a way of getting help if I get > > hurt. This is the way things were 30 years ago when divers paid fishing > > boat operators to take them out the wrecks during the off season with > > the promise that they would be paid if they got to the site. I think > > that based on the current climate, that is what we should go back to. > > Wendell > > > > Capt JT wrote: > > > > > > Capt. Steve > > > You have been around a long time, it is not my intention to totally > > > smash your dick in front of everyone, so I will also smash mine at the > > > same time as I do yours. > > > > > > We both have had the unfortunate trips were divers have lost their > > > life. For me the hard one was a friend name Tai Wilkerson. When his > > > body popped to the surface we had no idea what had happen. Before the > > > stand by diver could get his drysuit zipped and his fins on, I had > > > already jumped off the bow of the boat with a line in my hand, the > > > water was 41 degrees, I had nothing on but sweat pants. It was a hard > > > task for me to hold on to him as they pulled the rope with me while > > > holding on to him, all kinds of instructions from the boat were being > > > yelled, I did all I could. I could hardly hear them. Not even once was > > > I able to hold his head up and still hold onto the line that pulled us > > > up to the boat during the rescue attempt. I'm sure I was feeling the > > > effects of hypothermia, but I was able to hang on long enough to get > > > him to the boat and on the deck for CPR. I am not a very strong > > > surface swimmer. At that time I was also very lean and had been going > > > to the gym. Once I got on some dry cloths, I put myself in the > > > rotation to preform CPR. For nearly 2 hrs we did this before the CG > > > arrived. Once they took him the handful that was doing CPR was totally > > > drained. Tai was dead....... His death, the accident, and the lawsuit > > > are well documented in the archives. The dropping of that lawsuit can > > > be seen on my site, it should never have been filed from the start. > > > Personally I thought everyone did all they could, those that did do > > > CPR for that long were in my mind heros, but the family, their lawyer, > > > and even some on this list chose to call us something else. > > > > > > Now its your turn, please tell me why you chose to let Tony Mafatone > > > dive that rig off your boat and die, who jumped in and pulled him to > > > the boat, did they hold his head up, what was the crew on the boat > > > yelling, do you even know. It is well known that a huge debate was > > > going on this list the days before and the day he died about that rig > > > he was wearing, I called it the death rig. How come every diver who > > > saw him dive said he would die in that rig and you let him do it on > > > your boat, why couldn't you see what everyone else could. Please > > > explain yourself if you can...... > > > > > > You have a beef with the boat "Seeker", he is your main reason for > > > reducing your Doria trips, he was taking your business away, that is > > > the ax to grind for you and the reason you are saying what you are. > > > Read what you yourself just wrote: > > > > > > > ps: the captain and crew of any dive boat has the responsability and > > > > right to stop any diver from entering the water for any reason they > > > > see fit, from improper attutidude to you dont belong here and all > > > > the other reason in between, and you dont get any money refunded. > > > > captain steve bielenda > > > > > > At 11:44 AM 2/9/02 -0500, Wahoodiver@ao*.co* wrote: > > > > > > > Capt. Jt; > > > > Based on the entire CG report about 75 pages long my question to you > > > > is; > > > > How did Murley die, The CG report stated he drown at the surface, > > > > what has a waiver have to do with the situation, Murley can't waive > > > > someone else negligence.only his own. When someone in trouble at the > > > > surface screaming and thrashing with two people assisting him, how > > > > and why did he drown? One of the deck people watching, told the > > > > rescuer "his head is underwater" ????????????? > > > > What has a wavier to do with this situtation? > > > > ps: the captain and crew of any dive boat has the responsability and > > > > right to stop any diver from entering the water for any reason they > > > > see fit, from improper attutidude to you dont belong here and all > > > > the other reason in between, and you dont get any money refunded. > > > > captain steve bielenda > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/8/2002 4:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > > > Bakalite@ba*.co* writes: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Subj:Re: Diver Responsibility > > > >> Date:2/8/2002 4:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time > > > >> From:Bakalite@ba*.co* > > > >> To:vbtech@ci*.co*, FLTechDiver@mikey.net, EANX@ao*.co* > > > >> CC:techdiver@aquanaut.com > > > >> Sent from the Internet > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> John, I don't think you are being naive. The people who took this > > > >> > > > >> guy diving deserve everything they get, but it is important that > > > >> dive > > > >> operators have some protection from lawsuits, and that is usually > > > >> where the waiver comes in. If you buy a beer because you saw in > > > >> the > > > >> commercials that all the guys who drink beer get the girls, but > > > >> then > > > >> instead of getting girls you become a drunk, do you think you > > > >> should > > > >> be able to sue the beer company? At some point people need to > > > >> take > > > >> responsibility for themselves, because if the law tries to do it > > > >> we > > > >> are all going to get screwed. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> John Mason Jr"." wrote: > > > >> ~ > > > >> >JT, > > > >> >I agree Christopher Murley made the decision to dive signed the > > > >> waivers and > > > >> >went diving, all his choice. I agree that you should be prepared > > > >> for dying. > > > >> >You are also correct about families wanting to blame someone. > > > >> Personally I > > > >> >think you signed, your responsibility, end of story. But in this > > > >> case it > > > >> >seems that people had the attitude of he signed the waiver cash > > > >> the check, > > > >> >instead of you don't belong here waiver or not. This may be a > > > >> little naive, > > > >> >it is just my opinion. > > > >> > > > > >> >John > > > >> >----- Original Message ----- > > > >> >From: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*> > > > >> >To: <vbtech@ci*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; > > > >> ><vbtech@ci*.co*>; <EANX@ao*.co*> > > > >> >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > >> >Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:59 PM > > > >> >Subject: Re: Diver Responsibility > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >> John, have you ever seen a Doria wavier from the Seeker? The > > > >> one I have > > > >> >> states " I have been given the opportunity to review this > > > >> document with > > > >> >> both my family and legal counsel." that is initialed and > > > >> notarized long > > > >> >> before you ever get on the boat. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> We as humans will die as part of living, one must face the > > > >> fact that he or > > > >> >> she will someday die. Nothing will change this, that is > > > >> reality. That is > > > >> >> why we make wills and prepare of families for this event. > > > >> Those who do > > > >> >not > > > >> >> accept this fact will surely leave their family in debt and > > > >> screwed. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Often families want to blame someone else for this poor > > > >> planning and to > > > >> >> relieve the burden and guilt they feel for not being more > > > >> involved in the > > > >> >> deceased persons life. Clearly, Lawyers have different > > > >> reasons for > > > >> >> pursuing these cases and justice has nothing to do with it. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Mason Jr"." wrote: > > > >> >> >Curt, > > > >> >> >I agree that personal responsibility is the key. However in > > > >> this case I > > > >> >> >think some folks should have dissuaded this gentleman from > > > >> doing this > > > >> >kind > > > >> >> >of diving instead of enabling it. It has a bit of > > > >> moral/ethical > > > >> >messiness > > > >> >> >to accept money from someone who by all accounts should not > > > >> be there just > > > >> >> >because he signed a waiver. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >John Mason > > > >> >> >----- Original Message ----- > > > >> >> >From: <EANX@ao*.co*> > > > >> >> >To: <dell@di*.co*>; <trimix@ho*.co*>; > > > >> <aocfishman@ho*.co*>; > > > >> >> ><FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; <vbtech@ci*.co*> > > > >> >> >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > >> >> >Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:14 PM > > > >> >> >Subject: Diver Responsibility > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > Again, another case of family members trying to make an > > > >> excuse for a > > > >> >love > > > >> >> >one > > > >> >> > > lost. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > If you sign a waiver saying you accepts the risk involved > > > >> then it > > > >> >should > > > >> >> >be > > > >> >> > > written in stone. All we need is one case being lost > > > >> because of some > > > >> >> >crafty > > > >> >> > > (crooked) lawyer and all our diving could go to pot. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Divers and their families need to start taking > > > >> responsibility for what > > > >> >> >ever > > > >> >> > > they get themselves involved with. If not, then maybe > > > >> they should > > > >> >stay > > > >> >> >home > > > >> >> > > in bed, but then again they might sue the mattress company > > > >> for bed > > > >> >sores. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > This includes all divers, no matter their physical > > > >> fitness. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Curt Bowen > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Publisher Advanced Diver Magazine > > > >> >> > > 941-751-2360 Office > > > >> >> > > www.advanceddivermagazine.com > > > >> >> > > AdvDvrMag@ao*.co* > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Mailing address > > > >> >> > > Advanced Diver Magazine > > > >> >> > > 3115 48th Ave. Dr. East > > > >> >> > > Bradenton, FL 34203 USA > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Rule of Exploration > > > >> >> > > "Publish or Perish" > > > >> > > > > > > > >> ============================================================ > > > >> >> > > To contact the list administrator, email > > > >> >> > > Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne* > > > >> >> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: > > > >> >> > > listserv@mi*.ne* > > > >> >> > > and in the *BODY* of the message type: > > > >> >> > > unsubscribe FLTechDiver > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> ><< Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to > > > >> >VBTech-request@ci*.= > > > >> >> >com >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have > > > >> to get in > > > >> >the > > > >> >> water" > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > > > >> >> Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > > > >> >> Email captjt@mi*.co* > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to > > > >> >VBTech-request@ci*.= > > > >> >> com >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> ><< Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to > > > >> VBTech-request@ci*.= > > > >> >com >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Paul B. > > > >> -- > > > >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > >> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > >> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get > > > in the water" > > > > > > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > > > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > > > Email captjt@mi*.co* > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to VBTech-request@ci*.= > com >> > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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