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JT, Belinda seems to learn , the other guy is incapable. However, the only
way I would dive off of Steve's boat is to charter the whole boat so the
morons could not ruing the trip. Diving on the Seeker is about like going
to the Bronx Zoo and asking them to lock you in the monkey cage for the day.
-----Original Message-----
From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 2:51 PM
To: Wahoodiver@ao*.co*; Bakalite@ba*.co*; vbtech@ci*.co*;
FLTechDiver@mikey.net; EANX@ao*.co*
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: Diver Responsibility
Capt. Steve
You have been around a long time, it is not my intention to totally smash
your dick in front of everyone, so I will also smash mine at the same time
as I do yours.
We both have had the unfortunate trips were divers have lost their life.
For me the hard one was a friend name Tai Wilkerson. When his body popped to
the surface we had no idea what had happen. Before the stand by diver could
get his drysuit zipped and his fins on, I had already jumped off the bow of
the boat with a line in my hand, the water was 41 degrees, I had nothing on
but sweat pants. It was a hard task for me to hold on to him as they pulled
the rope with me while holding on to him, all kinds of instructions from the
boat were being yelled, I did all I could. I could hardly hear them. Not
even once was I able to hold his head up and still hold onto the line that
pulled us up to the boat during the rescue attempt. I'm sure I was feeling
the effects of hypothermia, but I was able to hang on long enough to get him
to the boat and on the deck for CPR. I am not a very strong surface swimmer.
At that time I was also very lean and had been going to the gym. Once I got
on some dry cloths, I put myself in the rotation to preform CPR. For nearly
2 hrs we did this before the CG arrived. Once they took him the handful that
was doing CPR was totally drained. Tai was dead....... His death, the
accident, and the lawsuit are well documented in the archives. The dropping
of that lawsuit can be seen on my site, it should never have been filed from
the start. Personally I thought everyone did all they could, those that did
do CPR for that long were in my mind heros, but the family, their lawyer,
and even some on this list chose to call us something else.
Now its your turn, please tell me why you chose to let Tony Mafatone dive
that rig off your boat and die, who jumped in and pulled him to the boat,
did they hold his head up, what was the crew on the boat yelling, do you
even know. It is well known that a huge debate was going on this list the
days before and the day he died about that rig he was wearing, I called it
the death rig. How come every diver who saw him dive said he would die in
that rig and you let him do it on your boat, why couldn't you see what
everyone else could. Please explain yourself if you can......
You have a beef with the boat "Seeker", he is your main reason for
reducing your Doria trips, he was taking your business away, that is the ax
to grind for you and the reason you are saying what you are. Read what you
yourself just wrote:
ps: the captain and crew of any dive boat has the responsability and
right to stop any diver from entering the water for any reason they see fit,
from improper attutidude to you dont belong here and all the other reason in
between, and you dont get any money refunded.
captain steve bielenda
At 11:44 AM 2/9/02 -0500, Wahoodiver@ao*.co* wrote:
Capt. Jt;
Based on the entire CG report about 75 pages long my question to you is;
How did Murley die, The CG report stated he drown at the surface, what
has a waiver have to do with the situation, Murley can't waive someone else
negligence.only his own. When someone in trouble at the surface screaming
and thrashing with two people assisting him, how and why did he drown? One
of the deck people watching, told the rescuer "his head is underwater"
?????????????
What has a wavier to do with this situtation?
ps: the captain and crew of any dive boat has the responsability and
right to stop any diver from entering the water for any reason they see fit,
from improper attutidude to you dont belong here and all the other reason in
between, and you dont get any money refunded.
captain steve bielenda
In a message dated 2/8/2002 4:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Bakalite@ba*.co* writes:
Subj:Re: Diver Responsibility
Date:2/8/2002 4:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time
From:Bakalite@ba*.co*
To:vbtech@ci*.co*, FLTechDiver@mikey.net, EANX@ao*.co*
CC:techdiver@aquanaut.com
Sent from the Internet
John, I don't think you are being naive. The people who took this
guy diving deserve everything they get, but it is important that dive
operators have some protection from lawsuits, and that is usually
where the waiver comes in. If you buy a beer because you saw in the
commercials that all the guys who drink beer get the girls, but then
instead of getting girls you become a drunk, do you think you should
be able to sue the beer company? At some point people need to take
responsibility for themselves, because if the law tries to do it we
are all going to get screwed.
John Mason Jr"." wrote:
~
>JT,
>I agree Christopher Murley made the decision to dive signed the
waivers and
>went diving, all his choice. I agree that you should be prepared for
dying.
>You are also correct about families wanting to blame someone.
Personally I
>think you signed, your responsibility, end of story. But in this case
it
>seems that people had the attitude of he signed the waiver cash the
check,
>instead of you don't belong here waiver or not. This may be a little
naive,
>it is just my opinion.
>
>John
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*>
>To: <vbtech@ci*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>;
><vbtech@ci*.co*>; <EANX@ao*.co*>
>Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:59 PM
>Subject: Re: Diver Responsibility
>
>
>> John, have you ever seen a Doria wavier from the Seeker? The one
I have
>> states " I have been given the opportunity to review this document
with
>> both my family and legal counsel." that is initialed and
notarized long
>> before you ever get on the boat.
>>
>> We as humans will die as part of living, one must face the fact
that he or
>> she will someday die. Nothing will change this, that is reality.
That is
>> why we make wills and prepare of families for this event. Those
who do
>not
>> accept this fact will surely leave their family in debt and
screwed.
>>
>> Often families want to blame someone else for this poor planning
and to
>> relieve the burden and guilt they feel for not being more involved
in the
>> deceased persons life. Clearly, Lawyers have different reasons
for
>> pursuing these cases and justice has nothing to do with it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mason Jr"." wrote:
>> >Curt,
>> >I agree that personal responsibility is the key. However in this
case I
>> >think some folks should have dissuaded this gentleman from doing
this
>kind
>> >of diving instead of enabling it. It has a bit of moral/ethical
>messiness
>> >to accept money from someone who by all accounts should not be
there just
>> >because he signed a waiver.
>> >
>> >John Mason
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: <EANX@ao*.co*>
>> >To: <dell@di*.co*>; <trimix@ho*.co*>;
<aocfishman@ho*.co*>;
>> ><FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; <vbtech@ci*.co*>
>> >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>> >Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:14 PM
>> >Subject: Diver Responsibility
>> >
>> >
>> > > Again, another case of family members trying to make an excuse
for a
>love
>> >one
>> > > lost.
>> > >
>> > > If you sign a waiver saying you accepts the risk involved then
it
>should
>> >be
>> > > written in stone. All we need is one case being lost because
of some
>> >crafty
>> > > (crooked) lawyer and all our diving could go to pot.
>> > >
>> > > Divers and their families need to start taking responsibility
for what
>> >ever
>> > > they get themselves involved with. If not, then maybe they
should
>stay
>> >home
>> > > in bed, but then again they might sue the mattress company for
bed
>sores.
>> > >
>> > > This includes all divers, no matter their physical fitness.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Curt Bowen
>> > >
>> > > Publisher Advanced Diver Magazine
>> > > 941-751-2360 Office
>> > > www.advanceddivermagazine.com
>> > > AdvDvrMag@ao*.co*
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Mailing address
>> > > Advanced Diver Magazine
>> > > 3115 48th Ave. Dr. East
>> > > Bradenton, FL 34203 USA
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Rule of Exploration
>> > > "Publish or Perish"
> > > > ============================================================
>> > > To contact the list administrator, email
>> > > Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
>> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
>> > > listserv@mi*.ne*
>> > > and in the *BODY* of the message type:
>> > > unsubscribe FLTechDiver
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ><< Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to
>VBTech-request@ci*.=
>> >com >>
>>
>> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to
get in
>the
>> water"
>>
>> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
>> Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/
>> Email captjt@mi*.co*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to
>VBTech-request@ci*.=
>> com >>
>>
>
>
>
><< Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to
VBTech-request@ci*.=
>com >>
--
Paul B.
--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
the water"
Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/
Email captjt@mi*.co*
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<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D736470700-10022002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>JT,=20
Belinda seems to learn , the other guy is incapable. However, the only =
way I=20
would dive off of Steve's boat is to charter the whole boat so the =
morons could=20
not ruing the trip. Diving on </FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D736470700-10022002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2> =
the Seeker is=20
about like going to the Bronx Zoo and asking them to lock you in the =
monkey cage=20
for the day.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Capt JT=20
[mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 09, =
2002=20
2:51 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Wahoodiver@ao*.co*; Bakalite@ba*.co*;=20
vbtech@ci*.co*; FLTechDiver@mikey.net; =
EANX@ao*.co*<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Diver=20
Responsibility<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Capt. Steve<BR>You have
been around =
a long=20
time, it is not my intention to totally smash your dick in front of =
everyone,=20
so I will also smash mine at the same time as I do yours.<BR><BR>We =
both have=20
had the unfortunate trips were divers have lost their life. For me the =
hard=20
one was a friend name Tai Wilkerson. When his body popped to the =
surface we=20
had no idea what had happen. Before the stand by diver could get his =
drysuit=20
zipped and his fins on, I had already jumped off the bow of the boat =
with a=20
line in my hand, the water was 41 degrees, I had nothing on but sweat =
pants.=20
It was a hard task for me to hold on to him as they pulled the rope =
with me=20
while holding on to him, all kinds of instructions from the boat were =
being=20
yelled, I did all I could. I could hardly hear them. Not even once was =
I able=20
to hold his head up and still hold onto the line that pulled us up to =
the boat=20
during the rescue attempt. I'm sure I was feeling the effects of =
hypothermia,=20
but I was able to hang on long enough to get him to the boat and on =
the deck=20
for CPR. I am not a very strong surface swimmer. At that time I was =
also very=20
lean and had been going to the gym. Once I got on some dry cloths, I =
put=20
myself in the rotation to preform CPR. For nearly 2 hrs we did this =
before the=20
CG arrived. Once they took him the handful that was doing CPR was =
totally=20
drained. Tai was dead....... His death, the accident, and the lawsuit =
are well=20
documented in the archives. The dropping of that lawsuit can be seen =
on my=20
site, it should never have been filed from the start. Personally I =
thought=20
everyone did all they could, those that did do CPR for that long were =
in my=20
mind heros, but the family, their lawyer, and even some on this list =
chose to=20
call us something else.<BR><BR>Now its your turn, please tell me why =
you chose=20
to let Tony Mafatone dive that rig off your boat and die, who jumped =
in and=20
pulled him to the boat, did they hold his head up, what was the crew =
on the=20
boat yelling, do you even know. It is well known that a huge debate =
was going=20
on this list the days before and the day he died about that rig he was =
wearing, I called it the death rig. How come every diver who saw him =
dive said=20
he would die in that rig and you let him do it on your boat, why =
couldn't you=20
see what everyone else could. Please explain yourself if you=20
can......<BR><BR>You have a beef with the boat "Seeker", he is your =
main=20
reason for reducing your Doria trips, he was taking your business =
away, that=20
is the ax to grind for you and the reason you are saying what you are. =
Read=20
what you yourself just wrote:<BR><BR><FONT face=3Darial size=3D2>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">ps: the captain and crew of any dive =
boat has=20
the responsability and right to stop any diver from entering the =
water for=20
any reason they see fit, from improper attutidude to you dont belong =
here=20
and all the other reason in between, and you dont get any money=20
refunded.<BR>captain steve=20
=
bielenda</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><
BR> =
; =20
At 11:44 AM 2/9/02 -0500, Wahoodiver@ao*.co* wrote:<BR><FONT =
face=3Darial=20
size=3D2>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">Capt. Jt;<BR>Based on the entire CG =
report=20
about 75 pages long my question to you is; <BR>How did Murley die, =
The CG=20
report stated he drown at the surface, what has a waiver have to do =
with the=20
situation, Murley can't waive someone else negligence.only his own. =
When=20
someone in trouble at the surface screaming and thrashing with two =
people=20
assisting him, how and why did he drown? One of the deck =
people=20
watching, told the rescuer "his head is underwater" =
?????????????<BR>What=20
has a wavier to do with this situtation?<BR>ps: the captain and crew =
of any=20
dive boat has the responsability and right to stop any diver from =
entering=20
the water for any reason they see fit, from improper attutidude to =
you dont=20
belong here and all the other reason in between, and you dont get =
any money=20
refunded.<BR>captain steve bielenda<BR><BR>In a message dated =
2/8/2002=20
4:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bakalite@ba*.co* =
writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">Subj:<B>Re: Diver Responsibility=20
</B><BR>Date:2/8/2002 4:45:22 PM Eastern Standard
Time<BR>From:<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*">Bakalite@bakalite.com</A><BR>To:<A =
href=3D"mailto:vbtech@ci*.co*">vbtech@cisatlantic.com</A>, =
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:FLTechDiver@mikey.net">FLTechDiver@mikey.net</A>, =
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:EANX@ao*.co*">EANX@aol.com</A><BR>CC:<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver@aquanaut.com</A><BR><I
>S=
ent=20
from the Internet </I><BR><BR><BR><BR>John, I don't think
you are =
being=20
naive. The people who took this <BR>guy diving deserve =
everything=20
they get, but it is important that dive <BR>operators have some =
protection=20
from lawsuits, and that is usually <BR>where the waiver comes =
in. If=20
you buy a beer because you saw in the <BR>commercials that all the =
guys=20
who drink beer get the girls, but then <BR>instead of getting =
girls you=20
become a drunk, do you think you should <BR>be able to sue the =
beer=20
company? At some point people need to take =
<BR>responsibility for=20
themselves, because if the law tries to do it we <BR>are all going =
to get=20
screwed.<BR><BR><BR>John Mason Jr"." =
wrote:<BR>~<BR>>JT,<BR>>I agree=20
Christopher Murley made the decision to dive signed the waivers=20
and<BR>>went diving, all his choice. I agree that you should be =
prepared for dying.<BR>>You are also correct about families =
wanting to=20
blame someone. Personally I<BR>>think you signed, your =
responsibility,=20
end of story. But in this case it<BR>>seems that people had the =
attitude of he signed the waiver cash the check,<BR>>instead of =
you=20
don't belong here waiver or not. This may be a little =
naive,<BR>>it is=20
just my opinion.<BR>><BR>>John<BR>>----- Original
Message =
-----<BR>>From: "Capt JT" =
<captjt@mi*.co*><BR>>To:=20
<vbtech@ci*.co*>;=20
=
<FLTechDiver@mikey.net>;<BR>><vbtech@cisatlantic.com>;=20
<EANX@ao*.co*><BR>>Cc:=20
<techdiver@aquanaut.com><BR>>Sent: Thursday, February 07, =
2002=20
5:59 PM<BR>>Subject: Re: Diver=20
Responsibility<BR>><BR>><BR>>> John, have =
you ever=20
seen a Doria wavier from the Seeker? The one I =
have<BR>>> =20
states " I have been given the opportunity to review this document =
with<BR>>> both my family and legal counsel." that =
is =20
initialed and notarized long<BR>>> before you ever get =
on the=20
boat.<BR>>><BR>>> We as humans will die as part =
of=20
living, one must face the fact that he or<BR>>> she =
will=20
someday die. Nothing will change this, that is reality. That=20
is<BR>>> why we make wills and prepare of families for =
this=20
event. Those who do<BR>>not<BR>>> accept this =
fact=20
will surely leave their family in debt and=20
screwed.<BR>>><BR>>> Often families want to =
blame=20
someone else for this poor planning and to<BR>>> =
relieve the=20
burden and guilt they feel for not being more involved in=20
the<BR>>> deceased persons life. Clearly, =
Lawyers =20
have different reasons for<BR>>> pursuing these cases =
and=20
justice has nothing to do with=20
=
it.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>&n
bsp;=20
Mason Jr"." wrote:<BR>>> >Curt,<BR>>> =
>I=20
agree that personal responsibility is the key. However in this =
case=20
I<BR>>> >think some folks should have dissuaded =
this=20
gentleman from doing this<BR>>kind<BR>>> >of =
diving=20
instead of enabling it. It has a bit of=20
moral/ethical<BR>>messiness<BR>>> >to accept =
money from=20
someone who by all accounts should not be there =
just<BR>>> =20
>because he signed a waiver.<BR>>> =
><BR>>> =20
>John Mason<BR>>> >----- Original Message=20
-----<BR>>> >From: =
<EANX@ao*.co*><BR>>> =20
>To: <dell@di*.co*>; <trimix@ho*.co*>;=20
<aocfishman@ho*.co*>;<BR>>> =20
><FLTechDiver@mikey.net>;=20
<vbtech@ci*.co*><BR>>> >Cc:=20
<techdiver@aquanaut.com><BR>>> >Sent: =
Thursday,=20
February 07, 2002 2:14 PM<BR>>> >Subject: Diver=20
Responsibility<BR>>> ><BR>>> =20
><BR>>> > > Again, another case of family =
members=20
trying to make an excuse for a<BR>>love<BR>>> =20
>one<BR>>> > > lost.<BR>>> >=20
><BR>>> > > If you sign a waiver saying you =
accepts=20
the risk involved then it<BR>>should<BR>>> =20
>be<BR>>> > > written in stone. All we need =
is one=20
case being lost because of some<BR>>> =20
>crafty<BR>>> > > (crooked) lawyer and all =
our diving=20
could go to pot.<BR>>> > ><BR>>> =
> >=20
Divers and their families need to start taking responsibility for=20
what<BR>>> >ever<BR>>> > > they =
get=20
themselves involved with. If not, then maybe they=20
should<BR>>stay<BR>>> >home<BR>>> =
> >=20
in bed, but then again they might sue the mattress company for=20
bed<BR>>sores.<BR>>> > ><BR>>> =
> >=20
This includes all divers, no matter their physical=20
fitness.<BR>>> > ><BR>>> >=20
><BR>>> > ><BR>>> > > Curt=20
Bowen<BR>>> > ><BR>>> > > =
Publisher=20
Advanced Diver Magazine<BR>>> > > 941-751-2360=20
Office<BR>>> > > <A=20
href=3D"http://www.advanceddivermagazine.com/"=20
=
eudora=3D"autourl">www.advanceddivermagazine.com</A><BR>>> =
>=20
> AdvDvrMag@ao*.co*<BR>>> > =
><BR>>> >=20
><BR>>> > > Mailing address<BR>>> =
>=20
> Advanced Diver Magazine<BR>>> > > 3115 48th =
Ave.=20
Dr. East<BR>>> > > Bradenton, FL 34203 =20
USA<BR>>> > ><BR>>> >=20
><BR>>> > > Rule of =
Exploration<BR>>> =20
> > "Publish or Perish"<BR>> > > >=20
=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>>> =20
> > To contact the list administrator, =
email<BR>>> >=20
> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*<BR>>> > > =
To=20
UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:<BR>>> =
> >=20
listserv@mi*.ne*<BR>>> > > and in the *BODY* =
of the=20
message type:<BR>>> > > unsubscribe=20
FLTechDiver<BR>>> > ><BR>>> =20
><BR>>> ><BR>>> =
><BR>>> =20
><< Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests=20
to<BR>>VBTech-request@ci*.=3D<BR>>> >com =
>><BR>>><BR>>> "You can't learn to dive on =
the=20
net, sooner or later you have to get =
in<BR>>the<BR>>> =20
water"<BR>>><BR>>> Your Guide to Great Wreck =
Diving=20
along the East Coast & more<BR>>> Web=20
Site <A href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"=20
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</A><BR>>> =20
Email =20
=
captjt@mi*.co*<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR
>=
>> =20
<< Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests=20
to<BR>>VBTech-request@ci*.=3D<BR>>> com=20
>><BR>>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><<
Send=20
subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to=20
VBTech-request@ci*.=3D<BR>>com >><BR><BR><BR>-- =
<BR>Paul=20
B.<BR>--<BR>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to=20
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.<BR>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests =
to=20
=
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOT
E><BR=
>"You=20
can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the =
water"<BR><BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff><U>Your Guide to Great Wreck =
Diving along=20
the East Coast & more <BR> Web Site <A=20
href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"=20
=
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</A><BR>Email =
=20
captjt@mi*.co*<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></U></BODY></HTML
>
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