Joe, it depends on who you are talking to. In my organization it is not an
acceptable. But when you get the opinion of somebody who has been to court
more times than he can count for wrongful death, his opinion is going to be
something like " I know I can get killed anytime... " and other such
nonsense.

Most thinking people don't go diving expecting to get killed. Unfortunately,
thinking is not an option for most people in the dive business, and I am
sure they will continue to prove that. You should get Mount into this
conversation since the lawsuit is not IANTD ( this time). I bet he says
something to that effect.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:joe@po*.co*]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 4:50 PM
To: Dell Motes; chris cole; aocfishman@ho*.co*;
FLTechDiver@mikey.net; vbtech@ci*.co*
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: (another) diver death lawsuit


I would have to agree with you.  Death or injury is simply not an option.
If that's what you think than you should sit it out and probably find new
dive buddies.

Conversely, this does not give license to employ unsafe methods or go beyond
the limitations of yourself, your buddies and your equipment.

I don't think it is right to train a person beyond his own personal
abilities and were I an instructor, I would figure a way to gracefully
extricate my self from the situation.  In this litigious society we live in
I could also see the same defendants being sued because they denied a fat
man his rights....

Joe


----- Original Message -----
From: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>
To: chris cole <trimix@ho*.co*>; <aocfishman@ho*.co*>;
<FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; <vbtech@ci*.co*>
Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: (another) diver death lawsuit


> Hey there Chris,
> I, for one, was never taught that death was a real possibility. I would
find
> it un-acceptable as being on my list of possible occurences to prepare for
> during a dive.
> After many years of experience, it continues to be un-acceptable to me.
> Several years ago, more than one friend told me of this being stated
during
> a particular project. Something to the effect that, "this is so risky,
that
> odds are someone will not survive".
> That works to sell movies, but anyone that accepts that as normal SOP is
not
> on the same page as I am. That is absolutely ludicrus to continue planning
> death as a factor in logistics, or any undertaking for that matter.
> It has and will continue to happen, but I do not consider it acceptable at
> any level of play.
> Maybe I could be considered a coward by some, but I don't subscribe to the
> daredevil stuff.
> I plan to make it home when I 'm done, and I don't mind telling anybody
I'm
> diving with what they need to hear in order for me to meet my goals.
> Best Regards,
> Dell Motes
> Research & Development
> Dive Rite
> 117 West Washington Street
> Lake City, Florida 32055
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "chris cole" <trimix@ho*.co*>
> To: <aocfishman@ho*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>;
> <vbtech@ci*.co*>
> Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:17 PM
> Subject: Re: (another) diver death lawsuit
>
>
> > FOR WHAT ITS WORTH!
> >
> > Tec Diving is an inherently dangerous sport in which we all were taught
> that
> > DEATH is a real possibility. It should not be up to a dive boat to play
> > mother to any level of diver and certainly not to a trained Tec diver.
> Yes,
> > the instructor should accept some responsibility for certifying a person
> > that is obviously out of shape. I am an IT for IANTD and have had
several
> > occasions where overweight, people have come to me for Tec training, I
am
> > very hard on my students, both physically and mentally, the joke is that
> if
> > you survive my classes that there isn't much that you have to worry
about
>
> > later. Yes, I am prejudice against those I view to be not fit for
diving.
> I
> > am even harder on them.
> > If you are over weight, not medically fit, or not psychologically fit
than
> > do us all a favor. DON'T DIVE! I, quite frankly don't care if you kill
> > yourself, but you endanger all those who dive with you as well as the
> > freedom we have from governmental intervention.
> >
> >                                        Chris Cole
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> >
> > ============================================================
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