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--part1_27.217bc8be.297c5003_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/20/2002 7:10:39 AM Central Standard Time, girvine@be*.ne* writes: > > Jeff, I am sick of idiots. I am sick of the Brits with their nonsense. You > just make it worse by spewing out sheer idiocy. Ask Reinhard how he got his > sleeping bag into the sumps, you fucking moron, and stop wasting my time > with bullshit. I don't care what you think is necessary for caving. Helmets > are bullshit in diving, and there is very little reason to expect to need > one in a horizontal cave situation. George, I agree that the promotion of improper caving techniques is a waste of time, but only you can choose to waste your time by doing so. I do not know how Reinhard transports his bivouac or dry caving gear beyond the sumps. However, I do know what method I have used to do the same. Perhaps that is something that could be discussed between parties who are actually involved and those who share a passion for that endeavor. You make the assumption that the passage beyond the sump is horizontal in nature which thereby eliminates the need for a helmet. An analogy of your opinion that it is better to dry cave using a goodman handle is like suggesting you ride a motorcycle at night while shinning a flashlight down the desired direction af travel. There is however little I can do to change that opinion and that is not the focus of this discussion. The purpose of my initial comments to this thread were directed to the techniques involved for sump diving. Since there are few on this list who are involved with this activity, and seemingly fewer who wish to have their opinions heard, I will concede that this is not the proper outlet for this discussion. Regards JD > et's look at some of the really stupid things you and the Brits have said . > The fact that you don't actually do any of this is funny because you come > up with the same crap they do and they claim to be big shots at it. They > even claim some "traverse record" which is a screaming joke since other > than the 14+ thousand foot deep traverse that JJ and I did a few years ago, > the previous "record" was held by Bill Gavin and Lamar English since 1987. > > Now, the bullshit. For one thing, if you put a light on a helmet, the only > way you can look at something is by turning your whole head to point at it. > You can not just move your eyes like you can when you are holding the light > by its goodman handle. There is no reason you can not climb or negotiate > with a goodman handle. I made one with a strap when I went dry caving last. > On the other hand, putting the light on your gear subjects it to getting > hit, to falling off, to pulling the stupid helmet off, to tangling the > cord, to making it impossible to negotiate any kind of problem while tied > in to the light on you head, etc. Never mind looking like a complete moron. > > Putting backup lights there, like the Brits do, is beyond the pale stupid. > ( Then those morons generally leave them turned on, adding to the > stupidity). > > Cave diving is something I know a little more about than your or the > cumulative Island of Great Britain, and I am quite certain of that as it > gets proven to me by all of you every time you try to argue with me about > it. DIR is the best system for doing this. We do all kinds of diving with > it. The perversions and nonsense that the strokes come up with is not going > to cut it , can not be rationally explained or justified, is the root of > most accidents , and for them we have Rule Number One. > > I don't care what kind of stupid things anyone else dopes, but don't expect > me to do anything but laugh and call it stupid. Brett Gilliam has been > doing extremely deep air dives for years , and so I guess by the logic of > you and the Brits, this must be ok since he is still alive. Right? > > --part1_27.217bc8be.297c5003_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 01/20/2002 7:10:39 AM Central Standard Time, girvine@be*.ne* writes: <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Jeff, I am sick of idiots. I am sick of the Brits with their nonsense. You just make it worse by spewing out sheer idiocy. Ask Reinhard how he got his sleeping bag into the sumps, you fucking moron, and stop wasting my time with bullshit. I don't care what you think is necessary for caving. Helmets are bullshit in diving, and there is very little reason to expect to need one in a horizontal cave situation. </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">George, I agree that the promotion of improper caving techniques is a waste of time, but only you can choose to waste your time by doing so. <BR>I do not know how Reinhard transports his bivouac or dry caving gear beyond the sumps. However, I do know what method I have used to do the same. <BR>Perhaps that is something that could be discussed between parties who are actually involved and those who share a passion for that endeavor. <BR>You make the assumption that the passage beyond the sump is horizontal in nature which thereby eliminates the need for a helmet. <BR> <BR>An analogy of your opinion that it is better to dry cave using a goodman handle is like suggesting you ride a motorcycle at night while shinning a flashlight down the desired direction af travel. <BR>There is however little I can do to change that opinion and that is not the focus of this discussion. <BR>The purpose of my initial comments to this thread were directed to the techniques involved for sump diving. Since there are few on this list who are involved with this activity, and seemingly fewer who wish to have their opinions heard, I will concede that this is not the proper outlet for this discussion.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Regards JD <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">L<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">et's look at some of the really stupid things you and the Brits have said . The fact that you don't actually do any of this is funny because you come up with the same crap they do and they claim to be big shots at it. They even claim some "traverse record" which is a screaming joke since other than the 14+ thousand foot deep traverse that JJ and I did a few years ago, the previous "record" was held by Bill Gavin and Lamar English since 1987.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Now, the bullshit. For one thing, if you put a light on a helmet, the only way you can look at something is by turning your whole head to point at it. You can not just move your eyes like you can when you are holding the light by its goodman handle. There is no reason you can not climb or negotiate with a goodman handle. I made one with a strap when I went dry caving last. On the other hand, putting the light on your gear subjects it to getting hit, to falling off, to pulling the stupid helmet off, to tangling the cord, to making it impossible to negotiate any kind of problem while tied in to the light on you head, etc. Never mind looking like a complete moron.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Putting backup lights there, like the Brits do, is beyond the pale stupid. ( Then those morons generally leave them turned on, adding to the stupidity).</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Cave diving is something I know a little more about than your or the cumulative Island of Great Britain, and I am quite certain of that as it gets proven to me by all of you every time you try to argue with me about it. DIR is the best system for doing this. We do all kinds of diving with it. The perversions and nonsense that the strokes come up with is not going to cut it , can not be rationally explained or justified, is the root of most accidents , and for them we have Rule Number One.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I don't care what kind of stupid things anyone else dopes, but don't expect me to do anything but laugh and call it stupid. Brett Gilliam has been doing extremely deep air dives for years , and so I guess by the logic of you and the Brits, this must be ok since he is still alive. Right?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR></FONT></HTML> --part1_27.217bc8be.297c5003_boundary-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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