Yes, the term "air break" is a misnomer. We use bottom gas or any other gas
that will give us the lowest breathable PPO2.

-----Original Message-----
From: Wendell Grogan [mailto:wgrogan@dc*.ne*]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 9:07 PM
To: Trey
Cc: Charles Roth; techdiver@aquanaut.com; Quest@Gu*. Com
Subject: Re: Oxygen Clock


Trey,
A minor point, but important.
On breaks from O2, the closer you get to real normoxia (i.e.. 21%) the
better.  In fact, if you get down to the 17% range, there is some
evidence that is even better.  Air, at 20 feet is 0.34 ppO2.  Most
bottom gas mixes are going to be best.
Wendell

Trey wrote:
>
>  The short version of the answer is that we came up with this ( 12 on , 6
> off )by trying everything and arriving at that. We knew from any of our
> diving that long exposures to higher ppo2s left us feeling like we had a
> chest cold. We started out with the usual crap that is taught out there
( 20
> on then break ) and found that to be useless. We found loss of vital
> capacity with these regimens.  Now we have no such negative results.
>
>  The oxygen takes less than 12 minutes to reach as high an effective
> saturation level as is useful. Beyond that the body reacts by constricting
> blood vessels everywhere which limits off gassing, by trying to protect
the
> lining of the lungs and hence thickens the transfer area by adding cells
and
> excreting mucous which impedes gas transfer, and by causing swelling of
the
> lung tissue which further reduces gas exchange capability, not to mention
> scarring and long term damage that in my opinion will come back to haunt
the
> agencies who teach the baloney.
>
>   Returning to a more normoxic ppo2 will reverse these effects. However,
if
> you do not return soon enough, the effects take a lot longer to reverse.
The
> big and important thing here is not to depend on reversing this action,
but
> to preempt it and keep it from fully developing and thus make what does
> occur easier to reverse and at the same time actually improve your off
> gassing by opening the capillaries back up and allowing gas to escape from
> the tissues into the blood. This "toggling" back and forth has proven to
be
> the absolute best method of gas use in decompression. DIR deco.
>
>   If you fail to do this at any point in the deco using high ppo2s you
will
> merely be holding gas in tissues which may expand before it can be removed
> as you move up - another massive flaw in all of the existing deco
programs.
>
>   As you get higher in the water column, off gassing is more safely and
> effectively achieved by the moving the gradient and letting gas bubble
into
> the bloodstream and be caught and removed by the lungs, but lower down
this
> will not work - one more huge flaw in deco programs.
>
>   You really should look on the WKPP site and read some of my profiles and
> decompressions on the longer dives to see all the massive deviations from
> what is thought to be correct by the agencies.
>
>   In fact, I will tell you right now that this is just like deep air - the
> same idiots who fought for their precious deep air are the ones who teach
> the most incorrect deco and theories of deco. The same people - give them
a
> wide berth in all areas of diving since you can NOT teach pigs to sing.
>
>   If want real information, come to the proven sources.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Roth [mailto:divr555@ho*.co*]
> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 2:53 AM
> To: trey@ne*.co*; techdiver@aquanaut.com
> Subject: RE: Oxygen Clock
>
> Trey,
> In fear of sounding stupid, yes, I would really like to know how you all
> came up with this. Or at least point me in the right direction to find the
> resources about this.  Thanks.
>
> Chuck R
>
> >From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey)
> >To: "Isaac Callicrate" <icallicrate@ho*.co*>, <mjblackmd@ya*.co*>,
> ><techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >Subject: RE: Oxygen Clock
> >Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 07:35:10 -0500
> >
> >
> >Isaac, we have found that 12 minutes on, 6 minutes off is the ideal. We
> >only
> >do oxygen at 30 feet in a habitat where we have caves that accommodate
> >this.
> >Otherwise we do oxygen at 20 feet or slightly less in the water with the
> >same schedule. If anyone wants to go back over why we do this and how we
> >determine bottom gas , deco gas and exposure ( or how we arrived at what
we
> >do), I can repeat it .
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Isaac Callicrate [mailto:icallicrate@ho*.co*]
> > >Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 2:51 AM
> > >To: mjblackmd@ya*.co*; techdiver@aquanaut.com
> > >Subject: Re: Oxygen Clock
> > >
> > >
> > >Im not sure why everyone is harping on who this guy is or what he
> > >has posted
> > >in the past instead of answering his questions.
> > >Am I missing something in the charter that says you have to rate an
> >answer
> > >or that previous posts disqualify you from getting one?
> > >Ill give it a shot even though there are probably more informed
qualified
> > >people on this list that should be.
> > >I see WKPP as crossing the grey area between recreational and
> > >working diving
> > >(watch out for OSHA, ADC, and USCG). They are performing dives where
more
> > >compartments are saturated than most other recreational profiles.
> > >They have
> > >been diving similar profiles over and over so have built up an amount
of
> > >historical data combined with some doppler research that they have used
> >to
> > >make assumptions about their profiles.
> > >I dont think anyone can say right or wrong yet. If their people
> > >arent having
> > >DCS manifestations or O2 toxicity issues than I would definately
> > >say that by
> > >being the guinea pig and letting the rest reap the rewards of the
> > >data they
> > >are rising above.
> > >Please do the math on a Navy standard TT 6A with 50/50 @ 165' and 100%
@
> > >60'. Do it on a Navy single exposure of 100% at 25' for 240 minutes.
Why
> > >havent you e-mailed them? Please CC me when you do. I think it is
> > >publicaffairs@ne*.na*.na*.mi*
> > >WKPP isnt the only one that challenges theoretical formulas and
> > >assumptions
> > >with historical data. Commercial, military, hyperbaric facilities all
> >have
> > >modified the standard thinking on the CNS clock.
> > >My personal feelings, I wouldnt recommend pushing the clock on a
working
> > >dive when not required. For recreational dives, there is no need
> > >to push it
> > >when you are having fun. If you use a habitat or a chamber or
> > >maybe at rest
> > >during deco with surface support, the risk is minimized.
> > >I dont think that taking breaks off O2 is going to significantly
> > >effect your
> > >susceptibility to a CNS hit. That is speculation and if anyone has data
> >to
> > >prove otherwise I would love to examine and try to push it through to
> >some
> > >people.
> > >About cumulative pulmonary issues, I would absolutely take breaks every
> > >20-25 min for extended exposures. With increases as neccessary.
> > >The only big no-no I see is deco on 100% @ >1.6 w/o a ffm, hat, or in a
> > >controlled environment. I dont think WKPP is doing that. I think
> > >they use a
> > >habitat for extended oxygen. Their protocol incorperates breaks between
> >O2
> > >periods.
> > >What data is NOAA basing their CNS clocking off of? Historical or
> > >Empirical?
> > >Do you side with someones calculator or slide rule?
> > >For technical diving I think everyone should be taught to do a
> > >personal risk
> > >analysis for Accelerated Deco vs O2 tox.
> > >Where do you draw the line? We can use good models for DCS and pretty
> >much
> > >say if you do this profile you will get bent. O2 clock is more like
> > >speeding. Doing 25 is safer than 65 or 100 or 20,000. We dont know
> > >where you
> > >cross the line to get in a guaranteed O2 "accident". We need more data.
> > >All said, everyone enjoy your hit, have the ME e-mail me.
> > >
> > >>From: "Michael J. Black" <mjblackmd@ya*.co*>
> > >>To: Aquanaut Mail <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > >>Subject: Oxygen Clock
> > >>Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:26:40 -0800 (PST)
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
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> > >
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