Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
--part1_3d.134b34c6.29078d79_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/23/01 10:26:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, aldo.solari@ho*.se* writes: > . Wreckers should study basics in law, cultural > heritage, social anthropology and archeology. Nobody will get > killed by going to some seminars, reading some material and doing > some field work with specialized instructors. > Tell you what, Chief, I studied archeology, the underwater variety to be specific, while in college. I even gave a bit of thought to doing degree work in anthropology. I know several professional archeologists well, particularly those specializing in submerged cultureal materials. Wanna hear my "enlighted and educated" view of UNESCO? It stinks. It will do nothing to protect anything worth protecting, will result in a "black market" of wreck diving and fishing resulting in the location of potentially culturally significant sites going unreported and has the potential to destroy the recreational diving industry. You use passionate, insulting commentary such as "terrorists," "wreck grubbers" and "cutural resource killers," yet likely have never been involved in an underwater archeological project yourself. You come off as someone lost in the hallowed halls of academia with little or no understading of the real world and how it works. The fact is, the majority of the wreck divers I know are fairly conciencious people. They aren't about to strip artifacts off of any sites that are truely significant cultural resources. The vast majority of worthwhile sites that have been identified have been found and reported by sport divers, not professional archeologists. In contrast, archeologist often are the worst hackers/destroyers/treasure hunters that exist. Take a trip to Port Royal Jamaica and see the rotting, rusting, crumbling artifacts left to waste away by archeologists due largely to a lack of funding. These items are of some significance and obviously would be better cared for if in the hands of a few "wreck gutters," who would conserve and display them, instead of in the hands of professional archeologists! Here's a thought. You want to protect all the wrecks laying in your country's sovereign waters, go for it. However, if you want to muddle in the territorial waters of other countries, thanks but no thanks, we'll keep care of our own. (I'm not even going to touch the nonsense you put forward concerning fishing, degradation of fish stocks, etc. A six year old with a kindergarten education would recognize that for a crock of bull). your wrote-------- Art, there are three points I would like to clarify: (1). There are international guidelines (given by UNESCO) for the concept of "cultural/natural heritage" on both sea and land. In principle, everything *is* cultural/natural heritage unless declared otherwise. And this goes beyond the interest of many of those divers who "take a piece home" (ie. deny to others the very same sites where they themslves liked to dive); (2). Combination of scuba gear + spear fishing is forbidden in many countries. The reason is very clear: spear fishing combined to scuba gear imply the local extinction of many coastal fish species. A well of scientific (exclusion) studies have been conducted on this in the Mediterranean; even the sole presence of divers (who just watch) is known to disturb many species. (3). Mixing up spear fishing and trawling is demagogy: spear fishing is aimed at coastal species while trawling is done on demersal or pelagic species at a minimum of 5 km off the shore. The species are different. While trawling is known to collapse fish populations so does spear fishing in coastal systems. The level of education in the diver population is low both here and in the US. Training is solely technical, quality is bad and it lacks several subjects which are highly significant. There should be course work at university level for those interested in a diving license. The University of Barcelona (Spain), for instance, has started such couses and it is a very fine initiative. Wreckers should study basics in law, cultural heritage, social anthropology and archeology. Nobody will get killed by going to some seminars, reading some material and doing some field work with specialized instructors. In the US, course work is always expensive. However, you could talk to many people from public universities who -I am sure- will be more than glad to talk you through 4-5 seminars on diving related aspects for free. Cheers, ---- aldo.solari@ho*.se* (fisheries biologist) Home page, www.ccbb.ulpgc.es/fish-ecology/solaris ---- --part1_3d.134b34c6.29078d79_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Verdana" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/23/01 10:26:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, aldo.solari@ho*.se* writes: <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">. Wreckers should study basics in law, cultural <BR>heritage, social anthropology and archeology. Nobody will get <BR>killed by going to some seminars, reading some material and doing <BR>some field work with specialized instructors. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Verdana" LANG="0"> <BR>Tell you what, Chief, I studied archeology, the underwater variety to be specific, while in college. I even gave a bit of thought to doing degree work in anthropology. I know several professional archeologists well, particularly those specializing in submerged cultureal materials. Wanna hear my "enlighted and educated" view of UNESCO? It stinks. It will do nothing to protect anything worth protecting, will result in a "black market" of wreck diving and fishing resulting in the location of potentially culturally significant sites going unreported and has the potential to destroy the recreational diving industry. <BR> <BR>You use passionate, insulting commentary such as "terrorists," "wreck grubbers" and "cutural resource killers," yet likely have never been involved in an underwater archeological project yourself. You come off as someone lost in the hallowed halls of academia with little or no understading of the real world and how it works. <BR> <BR>The fact is, the majority of the wreck divers I know are fairly conciencious people. They aren't about to strip artifacts off of any sites that are truely significant cultural resources. The vast majority of worthwhile sites that have been identified have been found and reported by sport divers, not professional archeologists. In contrast, archeologist often are the worst hackers/destroyers/treasure hunters that exist. Take a trip to Port Royal Jamaica and see the rotting, rusting, crumbling artifacts left to waste away by archeologists due largely to a lack of funding. These items are of some significance and obviously would be better cared for if in the hands of a few "wreck gutters," who would conserve and display them, instead of in the hands of professional archeologists! <BR> <BR>Here's a thought. You want to protect all the wrecks laying in your country's sovereign waters, go for it. However, if you want to muddle in the territorial waters of other countries, thanks but no thanks, we'll keep care of our own. <BR> <BR>(I'm not even going to touch the nonsense you put forward concerning fishing, degradation of fish stocks, etc. A six year old with a kindergarten education would recognize that for a crock of bull). <BR> <BR> <BR>your wrote-------- <BR> <BR>Art, there are three points I would like to clarify: <BR> <BR>(1). There are international guidelines (given by UNESCO) for the <BR>concept of "cultural/natural heritage" on both sea and land. In <BR>principle, everything *is* cultural/natural heritage unless <BR>declared otherwise. And this goes beyond the interest of many of <BR>those divers who "take a piece home" (ie. deny to others the very <BR>same sites where they themslves liked to dive); <BR> <BR>(2). Combination of scuba gear + spear fishing is forbidden in <BR>many countries. The reason is very clear: spear fishing combined <BR>to scuba gear imply the local extinction of many coastal fish <BR>species. A well of scientific (exclusion) studies have been <BR>conducted on this in the Mediterranean; even the sole presence of <BR>divers (who just watch) is known to disturb many species. <BR> <BR> <BR>(3). Mixing up spear fishing and trawling is demagogy: spear <BR>fishing is aimed at coastal species while trawling is done on <BR>demersal or pelagic species at a minimum of 5 km off the shore. <BR>The species are different. While trawling is known to collapse <BR>fish populations so does spear fishing in coastal systems. <BR> <BR>The level of education in the diver population is low both here <BR>and in the US. Training is solely technical, quality is bad and <BR>it lacks several subjects which are highly significant. There <BR>should be course work at university level for those interested in <BR>a diving license. The University of Barcelona (Spain), for <BR>instance, has started such couses and it is a very fine <BR>initiative. Wreckers should study basics in law, cultural <BR>heritage, social anthropology and archeology. Nobody will get <BR>killed by going to some seminars, reading some material and doing <BR>some field work with specialized instructors. <BR> <BR>In the US, course work is always expensive. However, you could <BR>talk to many people from public universities who -I am sure- will <BR>be more than glad to talk you through 4-5 seminars on diving <BR>related aspects for free. <BR> <BR>Cheers, <BR> <BR>---- <BR>aldo.solari@ho*.se* (fisheries biologist) <BR>Home page, www.ccbb.ulpgc.es/fish-ecology/solaris <BR>---- <BR></FONT></HTML> --part1_3d.134b34c6.29078d79_boundary-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
Navigate by Author:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Subject Search Index]
[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]
[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]