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There are several variations of the "Arm Bar", often even those who teach
it call them by other descriptions. Wrestlers are unable to pass the guard
because of the years they trained to keep an opponent on their back, very
hard to teach an old dog a new trick... but not totally impossible. Kevin
Jackson, an Olympic gold medalist in wrestling, was easily defeated by
Frank Shamrock in just 14 seconds by using an "armlock"
http://www.ufc.tv/history/history.asp?articleID=79 Frank has not done any
amateur wrestling, but is the brother of Ken Shamrock, they train as
"submission wrestlers". The take down is the easy part for a wrestler with
an amateur wrestling back ground, doing anything after that they seem to be
lost.
Wrestling is a very good way to stay in shape, within minutes the out of
shape are out of gas.
At 05:08 PM 9/30/01 -0400, Trey wrote:
>It is an "arm bar" , btw. Passing the guard is not intuitive for a wrestler
>because of the direction of the next move - it has to be the opposite of the
>way you do it wrestling. We mix in a lot of wrestling and take down sessions
>so as to get a better workout.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
>Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 12:43 PM
>To: Trey
>Cc: Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com
>Subject: RE: [wkpp] George is right again
>
>
>Royce Gracie, the famed Ju Jitsu fighter from the Gracie family and school,
>while known for a great number of victories by chokes, is a classic
>Brazilian fighter who uses a number of submission holds. The best fight I
>ever saw was when he defeated "Kimo" with an arm lock, but then Gracie
>could not fight his next fight because he was winded.
>
>Most chokes are often for a very short period of time and the fighter "taps
>out", if he resists a true choke, he goes unconscious in way less than a
>minute.
>
>The average diver can hold his breath for longer than a minute, but he is
>not usually "working" when he does this.
>
>I have a many number of years of amateur wrestling at the jr high and high
>school level and freestyle during the summer months, so I know more than
>most. Though some Olympic wrestlers are doing very well in the fights that
>are held now most are unable to pass the "guard" of Ji Jitsu fighting and
>lack punching or kicking power to take out an opponent.
>
>Once fighters found they only had to last the first 8 minutes of poor
>punching from Olympic wrestler Mark Coleman while in the guard, they could
>easily defeat him with kicks or punches.
>
>
>
> At 09:03 PM 9/25/01 -0400, Trey wrote:
>
> >If you are getting choked out you need to go to one of the Brazilian Ju
> >Jitsu guys, like Carlson/Gracie and learn how to defend the chokes. I
> >sparred with this 250 pound guy last weekend who constantly went for every
> >choke he could on me and I had no problem blocking it, although it was a
> >little scary at times with somebody that strong trying to choke you out.
> >That style of Ju Jitsu has the best of the tricks. The only thing that
>saves
> >my ass with those guys is years of wrestling combined with the C/G style,
>at
> >least the way they taught me.
> >
> >What you are saying about BR diving is true, and that is why you need a
> >buddy. It is also nice to have a unit that has fewer failure modes.
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Cam Banks [mailto:cam@ca*.co*]
> >Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 3:04 PM
> >To: Trey; wkpp@ya*.co*
> >Cc: Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com
> >Subject: Re: [wkpp] George is right again
> >
> >
> >It'd be interesting to ask all the people who want to own a rebreather if
> >they've ever had the experience of passing out from hypoxia. It's quick,
> >and gives no warning. If it happens to you underwater, you won't be coming
> >back, probably whether you have a buddy or not.
> >
> >I have been choked out once and almost choked out many times playing
> >judo/jujitsu over the years (because I suck), and my housemate has passed
> >out from hypoxia in a navy ship-board firefighting suit. Interestingly,
> >neither of us wants to do any rebreather diving.
> >
> >Maybe a quick choke should be a prerequisite to rb training. It doesn't
> >hurt; you just go to sleep. The difference is, you come back...
> >
> >Cam
> >
> > > From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey)
> > > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:34:57 -0400
> > > To: <wkpp@ya*.co*>
> > > Cc: "Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > Subject: RE: [wkpp] George is right again
> > >
> > >
> > > This asshole got on the tech lists and told me I don't know what I am
> >doing.
> > > He then proceed ed to spread lies about me which everyone called him on.
> >He
> > > then told me I was a moron and did not understand rebreathers, as did a
> > > couple of IANTD idiots who promote solo diving with rebreathers and
> >teaching
> > > diving with rebreathers. He told me DIR is bullshit and that his dives
> >were
> > > safe done solo.
> > >
> > > One more dead moron, and I love to see these guys keep getting whacked
>and
> > > whacked and whacked until somebody gets the message. Obviously IANTD is
> >not
> > > going to get the message, and but somebody out there who might otherwise
> > > follow the lead of these idiots might be saved. All rebreathers
>including
> > > the one I use are EXTREMELY dangerous, with the Buddy Inspiration being
>at
> > > the bottom of the barrel in my informed opinion, and the Cis Lunar being
> >one
> > > of the better ones. None of them should ever be used solo. Most of them
> > > should not be used at all. 99% of these wanabees do not have a good
>reason
> > > to use one in the first place.
> > >
> > > Every death on a rebreather has been solo or effectively solo.
> > >
> > > I will also point out that this Richahart moron was one more huge fat
>know
> > > it all slob with something to prove and an IANTD attitude, as I said
>when
> >I
> > > was arguing with him when he came after me.
> > >
> > > Right again and I will continue to be right and proven right on these
>guys
> > > every time.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Michael J. Blitch [mailto:mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*]
> > > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:07 PM
> > > To: wkpp@ya*.co*
> > > Subject: [wkpp] George is right again
> > >
> > >
> > > Details are sketchy, but the guy that was making up the BS on
> > > techdiver and Fltech a month or so ago is now missing and presumed
> > > dead while diving off the RBJ. Eric Reichardt
> > > <fishfinder1@ho*.co*> is the name of the victim. The kicker is
> > > that he was uses the very same cis-luna rebreather that Dr. Kendall
> > > used in Wak2 project. He was solo diving with a same ocean diver that
> > > was using a Buddy Inspiration. Sometimes one has to hate it when
> > > George is right since that often means another death was completely
> > > avoidable. Eric was completely out of shape 250-300 lbs, and had
> > > previously spoke of CNS and HPNS 'hits' he experienced. Last I saw
> > > this guy I was diving on the Minnow in WPB with some OW student and
> > > even on the reef he was using the cis-lunar with yellow force fins.
> > >
> > > Body recovery may be attempted in the next couple of days, but the
> > > current was something like 3.5 knots today, so unless he wedged
> > > himself in the wreck, it is probably past Miami by now.
> > >
> > > --
> > > You know you're addicted to the Internet when...
> > > Your wife drapes a blond wig over your monitor to remind you of what she
> > > looks like.
> > >
> > > Subscription/removal requests to WernerChris@ms*.co*.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > >
> >
> >--
> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >
> >--
> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>
>"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the
>water"
>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
> Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/
>Email captjt@mi*.co*
>
>
>--
>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the
water"
Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/
Email captjt@mi*.co*
--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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